Heckuva Job

[finehoe]

     A Heckuva Job, by Paul Krugman, Commentary, NY Times: ...Katrina was special in political terms because it revealed such a huge gap between image and reality. Ever since 9/11, former President George W. Bush had been posing as a strong, effective leader keeping America safe. He wasn't. But as long as he was talking tough about terrorists, it was hard for the public to see what a lousy job he was doing. It took a domestic disaster, which made his administration's cronyism and incompetence obvious to anyone with a TV set, to burst his bubble.

    What we should have learned from Katrina, in other words, was that political poseurs with nothing much to offer besides bluster can nonetheless fool many people into believing that they're strong leaders. And that's a lesson we're learning all over again as the 2016 presidential race unfolds.

    You probably think I'm talking about Donald Trump, and I am. But he's not the only one.

    Consider, if you will, the case of Chris Christie. Not that long ago he was regarded as a strong contender for the presidency... Now Mr. Christie looks pathetic — did you hear the one about his plan to track immigrants as if they were FedEx packages? But he hasn't changed, he's just come into focus.

    Or consider Jeb Bush... What happened to Jeb the smart, effective leader? He never existed.

    And there's more. Remember when Scott Walker was the man to watch? Remember when Bobby Jindal was brilliant?

    I know, now I'm supposed to be evenhanded, and point out equivalent figures on the Democratic side. But there really aren't any; in modern America, cults of personality built around undeserving politicians seem to be a Republican thing. ...

    Which brings us back to Mr. Trump.

    Both the Republican establishment and the punditocracy have been shocked by Mr. Trump's continuing appeal to the party's base. He's a ludicrous figure, they complain. His policy proposals, such as they are, are unworkable, and anyway, don't people realize the difference between actual leadership and being a star on reality TV?

    But ... those predicting Mr. Trump's imminent political demise are ignoring the lessons of recent history, which tell us that poseurs with a knack for public relations can con the public for a very long time. Someday The Donald will have his Katrina moment, when voters see him for who he really is. But don't count on it happening any time soon.

www.nytimes.com

[SunKing]

That is an odd commentary...
Pinning Katrina failures on W and then comparing W to Trump?

[Adam White]

That is an odd commentary...
Pinning Katrina failures on W and then comparing W to Trump?

The government's myriad failures in responding to the hurricane will have to be pinned on the President - the buck stops with him.

The article - as ham-fisted as it is - isn't so much comparing W and Trump as it is the creation of cults of personality around politicians (apparently just Republican ones).

[finehoe]

Maybe I should have bolded the point of the commentary for those too dense to get it:

poseurs with a knack for public relations can con the public for a very long time

[Sentient]

Maybe I should have bolded the point of the commentary for those too dense to get it:

poseurs with a knack for public relations can con the public for a very long time

And no mention of the poster child for this quote ^^ in the NYT article - Hillary Clinton... Of course...  [eyerolliest of eye rolls follows]

[Sentient]

Maybe I should have bolded the point of the commentary for those too dense to get it:

poseurs with a knack for public relations can con the public for a very long time

And no mention of the poster child for this quote ^^ in the NYT article - Hillary Clinton... Of course...  [eyerolliest of eye rolls follows]

I wonder what you think that the former Senator, former Secretary of State and forty year advocate of Health Care reform has 'conned' people about?

I think these are lazy terms, and I often wonder what people mean when they say them.

Yes she has been exemplary at projecting an air of accomplishment while padding her resume and growing her political machine base...  but what does she have to show for all of her "service"?  What great bills did she introduce and champion?  What great acts of statecraft?  Look forward to seeing a list of actual accomplishments.

[finehoe]

compared to other Senators and Secretaries of State?

How about compared to any Republican running for president?  What do any of them have to show for all of their "service"?  What great bills did any of them introduce and champion?  What great acts of statecraft?

Looking forward to seeing a list of actual accomplishments.

[Adam White]

One doesn't have to like Clinton. But it's ludicrous to pretend she's somehow worse than any other Senator or Secretary of State.

[Sentient]

compared to other Senators and Secretaries of State?

How about compared to any Republican running for president?  What do any of them have to show for all of their "service"?  What great bills did any of them introduce and champion?  What great acts of statecraft?

Looking forward to seeing a list of actual accomplishments.

You think Hillary has done more than Trump? 

[Sentient]

Maybe I should have bolded the point of the commentary for those too dense to get it:

poseurs with a knack for public relations can con the public for a very long time

And no mention of the poster child for this quote ^^ in the NYT article - Hillary Clinton... Of course...  [eyerolliest of eye rolls follows]

I wonder what you think that the former Senator, former Secretary of State and forty year advocate of Health Care reform has 'conned' people about?

I think these are lazy terms, and I often wonder what people mean when they say them.

Yes she has been exemplary at projecting an air of accomplishment while padding her resume and growing her political machine base...  but what does she have to show for all of her "service"?  What great bills did she introduce and champion?  What great acts of statecraft?  Look forward to seeing a list of actual accomplishments.

compared to other Senators and Secretaries of State?

Here is her Senate Career in summation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_career_of_Hillary_Rodham_Clinton

I think you really haven't thought through your statement. Its a lazy accusation that uses the No True Scotsman logical fallacy as its main support.

Being a Senator during an economic collapse and two wars is going to give a senator from the nation's most important city (and the victim of the George Bush Administration Era's Terrorist Attack on 911) plenty to do of substance and importance.  Its bizarre that you didn't already assume as much.

She then had to go back and put together the shambles left behind at the State Department as a result of the Chimperor's appointment of Condaleeza Rice and her disastrous global policies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton%27s_tenure_as_Secretary_of_State

So a pretty substantive career for the past 16 years.  She helped change a planet, both politically and symbolically.

What did you do?

Now don't get snippy Steven...  You've provided a loooong list of..... nothing.  Sponsored naught.  She carpetbagged a Senate seat in a state she had no ties to and could wield her political machine's influence in securing the vote.  Did nothing for NY.  Rode some coattails in the Senate into a horrific term in a figure head role as SoS, which was more political payback for her waiting patiently and supporting Obama...

There is really nothing behind her political career of substance at all.

[SunKing]

^^
Except a long list of scandals.

[finehoe]

You think Hillary has done more than Trump?

Well, yeah, seeing as how Trump has never held public office.  Using your own criteria, what does he have to show for all of his "service"?  What great bills did he introduce and champion?  What great acts of statecraft? 

[Apache]

[/quote]

  She carpetbagged a Senate seat in a state she had no ties to and could wield her political machine's influence in securing the vote. 
[/quote]

She completely gets a pass for this doesn't she

[Adam White]

"Carpetbagging" sounds dirty.

[Sentient]

Maybe I should have bolded the point of the commentary for those too dense to get it:

poseurs with a knack for public relations can con the public for a very long time

And no mention of the poster child for this quote ^^ in the NYT article - Hillary Clinton... Of course...  [eyerolliest of eye rolls follows]

I wonder what you think that the former Senator, former Secretary of State and forty year advocate of Health Care reform has 'conned' people about?

I think these are lazy terms, and I often wonder what people mean when they say them.

Yes she has been exemplary at projecting an air of accomplishment while padding her resume and growing her political machine base...  but what does she have to show for all of her "service"?  What great bills did she introduce and champion?  What great acts of statecraft?  Look forward to seeing a list of actual accomplishments.

compared to other Senators and Secretaries of State?

Here is her Senate Career in summation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_career_of_Hillary_Rodham_Clinton

I think you really haven't thought through your statement. Its a lazy accusation that uses the No True Scotsman logical fallacy as its main support.

Being a Senator during an economic collapse and two wars is going to give a senator from the nation's most important city (and the victim of the George Bush Administration Era's Terrorist Attack on 911) plenty to do of substance and importance.  Its bizarre that you didn't already assume as much.

She then had to go back and put together the shambles left behind at the State Department as a result of the Chimperor's appointment of Condaleeza Rice and her disastrous global policies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton%27s_tenure_as_Secretary_of_State

So a pretty substantive career for the past 16 years.  She helped change a planet, both politically and symbolically.

What did you do?

Now don't get snippy Steven...  You've provided a loooong list of..... nothing.  Sponsored naught.  She carpetbagged a Senate seat in a state she had no ties to and could wield her political machine's influence in securing the vote.  Did nothing for NY.  Rode some coattails in the Senate into a horrific term in a figure head role as SoS, which was more political payback for her waiting patiently and supporting Obama...

There is really nothing behind her political career of substance at all.

You mean other than the fifteen or so important bills and policies for which she is known?  Like do I really have to resist them for you here or can you just read the links provided?

New York must have hated her.  That state, so well known for being easily impressed by money and power, and so timid in expressing its disapproval, elected her twice to office.  Must have been all that carpetbagging.

After Condaleeza Rice and that retard of the House of Bush literally destroyed America's moral standing and diplomatic superiority in the world with two immoral wars and the approval of torture---lets not forget that Dick Cheney still can't travel to most of Europe because of War Criminal charges awaiting him---, Clinton re established America as a modern diplomatic force.

Just because you throw out a couple of ad hominem attacks doesn't make them true, you know.

You do realize that Clinton voted in favor of going to the "immoral wars" in Afghanistan and then Iraq under Bush?   And she voted for the Patriot Act?  She is practically a Bush supporter on her record BTW...  As an aside, I know you love to relive the angst and vitriol of the Oughts, and that bad bad Bush, but really, you need to move on from the era, not the least because the music was so bad...


And she supported Afghanistan again under Obama?  And left the US weaker vis a vis Russia and China, the Mid East and North Africa to boot.  Meanwhile the drone wars continue in trying to clean up the mess...   

LOL