Downtown Gamechanger

[NativeDigs]

In hindsight- 'Gamechanger' may have been stretching the idea.

I agree that Sweet Pete's has been one of the best things in downtown since Dos Gatos was built and became one of the best bars in Jax (IMO). I'm amazed (in a good way) that people flock to SP's on Sunday's and give a glimmer of hope of vibrancy in downtown.

A LOT could be done in LaVilla especially a college. We were in Charlottle recently and was not aware of how the college got built on the skirt of downtown. I have not read all the past post about LaVilla but it astounds me that Jacksonville has not developed some commercial space that should attract people on the highway.

[camarocane]

How about a university on the vacant parcels in LaVilla? Maybe a satellite of SCAD?  Force freshmen to live on campus and WAMMO 1000+ residents overnight...

UNF and JU were interested in occupying parts of the Barnett, really a perfect spot for a satellite business or law campus.  I have been thinking a downtown campus for JU and UNF coupled with perhaps a satellite for UF or FSU would be great in DT.  UF Health already has a huge presence here, wonder if UF has ever thought of perhaps a part of their business or law school being downtown.  And where is FSU's presence?  Loads of cities around the country are getting these downtown satellite campuses, another thing to add to the list . . . get a university (not junior of community college) satellite campus of some sort downtown.

IMO there would be more of a residential draw downtown if we had an undergraduate campus, its just not there with a graduate level college. We would need something like SCAD with an international prescence to bring in international students.
Seems like UNF, JU, and FJSCJCC (whatever it is this week) draw mainly from the locals.

[thelakelander]

A LOT could be done in LaVilla especially a college. We were in Charlottle recently and was not aware of how the college got built on the skirt of downtown. I have not read all the past post about LaVilla but it astounds me that Jacksonville has not developed some commercial space that should attract people on the highway.

They essentially paid the private, nonprofit college millions to consolidate its two campuses in Norfolk, Va., and Charleston, S.C., into one and relocate to Charlotte back in 2002.

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2009/09/14/daily29.html

http://www.carolinajournal.com/articles/display_story.html?id=4246

If you believe you'll eventually get your money back in the long term and you're willing to throw enough upfront cash to close some significant development deals, you can pull them off. Judging from line of downtown projects asking and waiting for city help, I 'd say we're not there yet.

[mtraininjax]

There are only and I repeat, ONLY 2 game changers on the horizon, to make a real difference downtown. 1) Tear down of the Landing and build something hip and cool for the 12,000 downtown residents, and 2) The Shipyards and what Khan will bring to the table and downtown.

Everything else is 2nd fiddle.

[RattlerGator]

I disagree, mtraininjax.

IMO there would be more of a residential draw downtown if we had an undergraduate campus, its just not there with a graduate level college.

Agreed; undergrads are the key. Graduate students would be good too but you've got to have undergrads in the mix, bigtime.

Number of UNF Majors by College (these are approximate numbers):

Brooks College of Health   
   2,750

Coggin College of Business   
   2,850

College of Arts & Sciences   
   6,700

College of Computing, Engineering, & Construction   
   1,600

College of Education & Human Services   
   1,650

So, Arts & Sciences is their biggest college and these are their component departments:

*Art and Design*
Biology
Chemistry
Communication
*Criminology and Criminal Justice*
English
History
Languages, Literatures and Cultures
Mathematics and Statistics
Music 
Philosophy
Physics
*Political Science and Public Administration*
Psychology
*Sociology, Anthropology and Social Work*

I placed stars next to the departments that I suspect could make creative use of a presence in the urban core but, minimally, all UNF has to do is build a big dorm downtown that students have a choice of using as a housing option. That starts the ball rolling.

Personally, it is probably the Coggin College of Business that could really be a gamechanger downtown.

Whatever the case, UNF (given that it has matured as a university) should have an absolutely major presence downtown. Shad Khan and Rummell, both, should be looking at creative ways to bring themm into their development mix. In fact, Shad Khan should be in serious talks with UNF about a major expansion of the university downtown. UNF has done a good job of not doing growth simply for the sake of growth (yes, UCF, I am looking at you) but they can and should grow more and they should do so downtown.

[mtraininjax]

^^^

FCCJ has been downtown for decades and it makes no difference. JU developed around Arlington and UNF has blossomed as the area around it has taken off as well. The neighborhoods help support the campus locations. There is no real neighborhood downtown, there are far too few people to make FCCJ's Main Downtown Campus a viable SCAD or Rollins College (Winter Park) type solution.

UNF has thrived because the neighborhoods have grown and expanded, as have its resources and degrees. FSCJ or FCCJ or Fruit Juice as we like to call it has had all sorts of opportunities to grow and expand and its a nice system with some nice facilities around town, and they all seem to thrive in neighborhoods that are growing, but downtown needs to grow on its own, and it needs more residents.

Case in point - Town Center, do you think it thrives because it has the southside, or because it has FSCJ South AND UNF and they play off one another? Town Center is becoming the epicenter of Jacksonville, and downtown has nothing to provide in terms of a life for people, besides a few restaurants. It needs a real game changer, Shipyards and Landing can be that change.

[RattlerGator]

mtraininjax, your comparison of FSCJ with UNF says you don't really understand the difference between the two. They (FSCJ) simply can't be compared to UNF, especially when discussing the possibility of bringing some life and vitality to downtown Jacksonville.

I'll also say that the Town Center adjacent to UNF has very little to do with UNF, per se, and everything to do with its location in the growth center of this metropolitan area.

Lastly, if Jacksonville University was forward-thinking they'd be looking to sell their entire Arlington campus (or partner in its development, commercially / residentially, etc.) and move to the urban core -- especially while so many incentives (goodwill and otherwise) exist to try and assist them in their effort, if chosen, to become a true "urban" university. It's a natural evolution that should be seriously considered while The Shipyards and Healthy Town, etc., are being dreamed into existence.

[thelakelander]

I'll also say that the Town Center adjacent to UNF has very little to do with UNF, per se, and everything to do with its location in the growth center of this metropolitan area.

Yes, UNF has very little if nothing to do with the SJTC's success as the newest regional shopping mall in the area.

[johnnyliar]

mtraininjax, your comparison of FSCJ with UNF says you don't really understand the difference between the two. They (FSCJ) simply can't be compared to UNF, especially when discussing the possibility of bringing some life and vitality to downtown Jacksonville.

I'll also say that the Town Center adjacent to UNF has very little to do with UNF, per se, and everything to do with its location in the growth center of this metropolitan area.

Lastly, if Jacksonville University was forward-thinking they'd be looking to sell their entire Arlington campus (or partner in its development, commercially / residentially, etc.) and move to the urban core -- especially while so many incentives (goodwill and otherwise) exist to try and assist them in their effort, if chosen, to become a true "urban" university. It's a natural evolution that should be seriously considered while The Shipyards and Healthy Town, etc., are being dreamed into existence.

I seriously doubt JU has any plans to move fully downtown. They keep buying up adjacent land in Arlington and building new dormitories, not to mention that they've doubled down on their effort to reach back into the community and help improve the surrounding neighborhoods.

[thelakelander]

Jax's most realistic chance at growing a school in DT is FSCJ. Yeah, it's not UF or Harvard but it can have more of an economic impact than it does today. Their plans to add student housing and a culinary school in downtown should become a great start.

[mbwright]

JU did sell off a good bit of their property to pay off debt a few years ago, thus limiting future growth.
I would have thought that the art museum UNF partnership would have been a good thing downtown, sort of like SCAD, but on a smaller scale, but has not had much impact.

[mtraininjax]

Yes, UNF has very little if nothing to do with the SJTC's success as the newest regional shopping mall in the area.

My point was not that the university had anything to do with the neighborhood's success, rather the opposite. UNF has thrived as the area has thrived. Conversely, FSCJ downtown has gone down the spiral of death as downtown Jacksonville has led the way.

Until you fix downtown, FSCJ can put stripes on its buildings lined with gold for all that matters, no one will take them seriously nor give a hoot about their programs.

[NativeDigs]

FSCJ is a terrible mention to the idea of an undergraduate school as FSCJ is a commuter school. Community colleges do not have living facilities that would keep students in the geographic area past class hours.

[thelakelander]

JU did sell off a good bit of their property to pay off debt a few years ago, thus limiting future growth.
I would have thought that the art museum UNF partnership would have been a good thing downtown, sort of like SCAD, but on a smaller scale, but has not had much impact.

JU still has more property in Arlington than they could ever assemble in DT Jax. However, the school as a whole still has less than 4k students. We've pretty much screwed the pooch on the core being home to a large scale university when UNF selected the Southside over Sugar Hill, decades ago. UNF did have a downtown campus in the same building as the art museum from 1978 to 1987. At its height, it had +2k students. When enrollment fell below 500, UNF shut it down. Unfortunately, it may have been negatively impacted by the construction of Hemming Plaza, like all the department stores that shut down around it during the mid-1980s.

http://www.unf.edu/library/specialcollections/archives/Buildings_-_Downtown_Center.aspx

Today, SCAD has nearly 10,000 undergraduates at its Savannah campus. It renovated it's first downtown building 37 years ago. Assuming Jax was able to attract an institution like that to downtown, if growth were the same, what we've seen SCAD do for Savannah wouldn't come to full fruition in DT Jax until 2050.

Yes, UNF has very little if nothing to do with the SJTC's success as the newest regional shopping mall in the area.

My point was not that the university had anything to do with the neighborhood's success, rather the opposite. UNF has thrived as the area has thrived. Conversely, FSCJ downtown has gone down the spiral of death as downtown Jacksonville has led the way.

Until you fix downtown, FSCJ can put stripes on its buildings lined with gold for all that matters, no one will take them seriously nor give a hoot about their programs.

In general, I don't believe there is a single catalyst project that can or should be considered a "gamechanger".  To really change the game, you'll need years of coordinated investment in a mix of private and public sector projects, all taking place within a compact pedestrian scale setting. I view the FSCJ situation the same way I do our convention center issue. Regardless of how many may view the school, its main campus is already downtown and it already attracts thousands. However, like the rest of downtown, it's not well integrated into the urban core. It's easier to better integrate and expand existing destinations than beating our brains out over how to attract another SCAD. When all the dust settles, the thing everyone loves about SCAD has been their ability to expand by investing in bringing existing building stock back online. Apply the same expansion/retrofit techniques to FSCJ, FBC and a host of other Northbank destinations and we'll be surprised with the extra level of foot traffic and street level activity that can be generated with anchors we already have in place.

Jax's most realistic chance at growing a school in DT is FSCJ. Yeah, it's not UF or Harvard but it can have more of an economic impact than it does today. Their plans to add student housing and a culinary school in downtown should become a great start.

Nah, it's Florida Coastal.  That school may eventually outgrow its space and it makes sense to be downtown amongst the law firms and courthouses.

We screwed the pooch here too. Florida Coastal actually wanted to come to downtown before picking their Baymeadows site. Unfortunately, we couldn't close the deal, even with her boozed out at the bar, hanging on us at 3am with her panties already pulled halfway down her ankles. Jokes aside, FCSL still has less than 1500 students and no student housing. You're not getting "SCAD" out of that. We could easily accomplish more simply working to better integrate FSCJ's expansion needs and desires.

[thelakelander]

FSCJ is a terrible mention to the idea of an undergraduate school as FSCJ is a commuter school. Community colleges do not have living facilities that would keep students in the geographic area past class hours.

They want to start adding housing....

TU: FSCJ looks to offer student housing, support downtown revitalization in 'win-win' outcome

A "win-win" situation is a phrase frequently being used to describe Florida State College at Jacksonville's early plans for further downtown expansion.

The college is eyeing two buildings for a proposal to develop student housing, a cafe and Center for Civic Engagement.
Downtown Jacksonville gains lively, young residents and fills empty buildings, while the school is able to provide a more traditional residential college experience for students who want that option.

FSCJ President Cynthia Bioteau said the school prides itself on being not just a community college, but the community's college.
"Part of what I believe our community needs, as we look at the downtown revitalization of the city core of Jacksonville, is we need live bodies, energetic bodies, and students are the best of what I could imagine living downtown, 24-hour-a-day, seven days a week and bring that kind of energy to the city core," she said.

The first of the two properties is the abandoned 26,288-square-foot, five-story property at 218 W. Church St. located four blocks from FSCJ's Downtown Campus. Bioteau said it is her goal to have the 50 to 75 housing units available to students in time for fall 2016 classes, which she called an optimistic timeline.

The plan would be the first time FSCJ has offered student housing. The school enrolled 32,000 students last fall and expects that to grow by 16 percent with this fall's classes.

Bioteau said demand for student housing already exists among students, especially those younger students right out of high school and international students. She expects the college will have no problem filling as many as 75 units, and there could be more housing in the future.

full article: http://www.fscj.edu/media/tu-fscj-looks-to-offer-student-housing-support-downtown-revitalization-in-w

It probably would not hurt us to stop worrying about what we don't have and better capitalizing on what we do and what we can turn existing anchors into.