Jacksonville vs Sarasota: Revitalizing Downtown

[Metro Jacksonville]

Jacksonville vs Sarasota: Revitalizing Downtown



Downtown Sarasota has become one of the hottest urban districts in the State of Florida. It's streets are now lined with sidewalk cafes, boutique retail shops, manicured green spaces and apartment/condominium towers. Can Jacksonville learn anything from the urban core of a metropolitan area with 1/2 the residents?  Take a look and give us your opinion.

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jul-jacksonville-vs-sarasota-revitalizing-downtown

[southsider1015]

Good article, Lake.  I lived there for three years before moving to Jax.  Couple of thoughts:

Crime (and the perception of crime) is significantly lower in Sarasota then Jax.  I felt much safer in downtown Sarasota than Jax. 

Homeless people were few and far between.  I'm sure there were homeless folks, but I don't remember them being so visible as they are here.

Much more foreign money invested in condos, businesses, etc.  Sarasota is a top beach destination for Europeans. 

What is the equivalent of St. Armand's Circle in Jacksonville?  Beaches Town Center?  Ponte Vedra Beach? 

How about Siesta Key? 

Lakewood Ranch might more comparable to Nocatee than North Port. 

Sarasota wasn't built over night.  It's taken decades to get to where its at today.  Jacksonville has a VERY long road ahead of it if it wants to be compared favorably with Sarasota.

[I-10east]

I like to look at urbandictionary to get a good gauge of what the average perception of a city is (non-sugarcoated). The overwhelming perception on ud is that Sarasota is a place for the rich & old among other issues.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sarasota

[I-10east]

Sarasota's official song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vOUYry_5Nw

[vicupstate]

In order to do a comparison, you need to see the Urban Dictionary entry for Jacksonville.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jacksonville%2C+FL

It is definitely not sugar-coated.

Definitely a less biased source than MJ.

[I-10east]

^^^How about selecting the more meatier 'Jacksonville' selection on UD (which isn't all complementary, but far from all doom and gloom) than just one poster on 'Jacksonville, FL'. Oh, that didn't fit the agenda, my bad...

[vicupstate]

^^^How about selecting the more meatier 'Jacksonville' selection on UD (which isn't all complementary, but far from all doom and gloom) than just one poster on 'Jacksonville, FL'. Oh, that didn't fit the agenda, my bad...

I typed in Jacksonville Fl from the link you posted, and that is what came up. There was no indication that anything else was even available to read. 

[I-10east]

^^^Suuuure....

[vicupstate]

^^^Suuuure....

Try it yourself. Use YOUR link above. and type in 'Jacksonville FL'

[I-10east]

^^^You passed up 'Jacksonville' (which is by far the most important city named Jacksonville) for Jacksonville, FL, okay; That one poster got thumbed down to an oblivion anyway; Seems like you would've selected something that the majority would've agreed, but that's beside the point...

[JayePorter]

Yes downtown Sarasota is very nice & gets lots of tourism mostly because of the gorgeous gulf beaches. However, my folks live in Sarasota and Dad drives a municipal bus. There is a HUGE homeless population in Sarasota.  Maybe they keep them out of St. Armand's circle but they're everywhere else.  Sarasota's sidewalks roll up at night; not exactly the place to be out on the town until the wee hours of the morning.  Sarasota has a lot going for it as a tourist destination and for retirees, but unless you work in retail / tourism or are in the medical field there's not much to say about it for everyday living. I don't think it's a good comparison to Jax or a model for a town that anyone under 55 actually lives in.

[fieldafm]

Homeless people were few and far between.

My in-law lives in Sarasota and works downtown. There are definately homeless people in downtown Sarasota. In fact, homelessness and parking are the common themes people complain about in Sarasota when it comes to downtown.

Downtown Sarasota (while small), has a pretty nice 3-4 block area (even more of a reason to explore a targeted approach on the Northbank: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-apr-parklets-of-san-francisco/page/3). It was a welcome surprise when I first went there several years ago.

And yes, the population swells during tourism season... is primarily an older crowd... and their economy mainly revolves around tourism-related industries and real estate (not unlike many Coastal Florida towns).

Interesting to note that former Shipyards developor, Ed Burr is now kicking the tires on a similar waterfront site in downtown Sarasota called the Quay.

[CityLife]

Good article Lake. I'm a big fan of Downtown Sarasota and the city in general.

Sarasota has a couple of big factors in its favor that Jacksonville does not. Its located about 5-10 minutes from the beach, and the adjacent beaches just happen to be arguably amongst the nicest in Florida.  In my opinion if Downtown Jax was at right on the other side of the intercostal, it would be easier to attract/retain office and retail uses.

Another big factor in Sarasota's favor is its cultural offerings. The Ringling Museum is the state's art museum and is managed by FSU which invests a lot of money and resources into it. New College of Florida is also located near the Ringling. It is a small school, but attracts high caliber students and faculty. Both are located a little further from DT Sarasota than the Cummer is to DT Jax, but they still help create an interesting cultural scene in urban Sarasota.

Due to the proximity to beautiful beaches, cultural offerings, and unique community character, Sarasota is able to attract wealthy people from all over. In turn these people have the type of money to sustain a diverse array of retail and dining. In my opinion if DT Sarasota was 15 miles from the beach and bay (like Jax), I don't think you would have the perfect synergy that you do between the wealthy residents and cultural offerings, and you would probably have a sprawling built environment like Jax does.

[thelakelander]

Good article, Lake.  I lived there for three years before moving to Jax.  Couple of thoughts:

Crime (and the perception of crime) is significantly lower in Sarasota then Jax.  I felt much safer in downtown Sarasota than Jax. 

Homeless people were few and far between.  I'm sure there were homeless folks, but I don't remember them being so visible as they are here.

Thanks. If you're looking for the homeless, head north of Central Avenue, across Fruitville Road, into the Rosemary District. You'll find sizeable camps sleeping on the streets. Moreso, than anything I've ever witnessed in DT Jax at night. With that said, Rosemary is gentrifying, so it goes to show that having a homeless population will not stop people from moving to an area if it the general population believes it's worth the investment.

What is the equivalent of St. Armand's Circle in Jacksonville?  Beaches Town Center?  Ponte Vedra Beach?

How about Siesta Key?

Ponte Vedra has no clear center. So in Northeast Florida, I'd say Beaches Town Center, downtown Jacksonville Beach, Centre Street in Fernandina and St. Augustine's historic district.

Lakewood Ranch might more comparable to Nocatee than North Port.

I forgot about Lakewood Ranch. It reminds me of the developments near Julington Creek and Race Track Road.  Either way, despite rapid outward growth, they've still found a way to turn their core around. IMO, it's just more proof that we should not use the popularity of our suburban areas as an excuse to why we can't get our downtown right.

Sarasota wasn't built over night.  It's taken decades to get to where its at today.  Jacksonville has a VERY long road ahead of it if it wants to be compared favorably with Sarasota.

Yes. Neither has Jax. We've been talking and investing in downtown revitalization since at least the 1950s. Today, our streets are filled with parts of various revitalization schemes over the decades. Examples include the closed courthouse/city hall annex during the 50s/60s, the Skyway 70s/80s, Prime Osborn/Riverwalks/Landing 80s, LaVilla's destruction 90s, etc.

Regarding Sarasota, back in the early 1990s, my family almost moved there. My dad was seriously considering a job offer to relocate and it got as far as us going down and spending a few days walking through houses and checking out neighborhoods and schools.  Lakewood Ranch wasn't around and most of University Parkway between 301 and I-75 was still cow pasture. At the time, downtown Sarasota wasn't much to brag about. It was struggling to keep the retail it still had at the time. Malls like DeSoto, Gulf Gate, Southgate, Sarasota Square, etc. were pretty popular.

Like many cities back then, the gimmick to turn things around was to build a shopping mall (Sarasota Main Plaza) downtown. Sarasota Main was a two-story mall that opened around 1985. Maas Brothers was the anchor. It didn't work. Maas Brothers closed in 1991 and the mall was largely a vacant shell. In 2000, the city adopted it's downtown master plan (we adopted on that year as well). 15 years later, they're still incrementally implementing that plan and we're on our 3rd.  If there's really one that stands out to me, it's seeing the benefits of developing a redevelopment plan/strategy and sticking with it longer than 4 years.

[Gunnar]

In order to do a comparison, you need to see the Urban Dictionary entry for Jacksonville.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jacksonville%2C+FL

It is definitely not sugar-coated.

Definitely a less biased source than MJ.

I hope you're being sarcastic - whoever wrote this entry either has some serious issues or a rather odd sense of humor.