City Hall, property appraiser at odds over salary increases in Jacksonville

[thelakelander]

Which way would you decide? Paying employees a competitive market-rate salary or keeping them all low, to be fair to workers in other departments?

Disagreement is brewing over Duval County Property Appraiser Jerry Holland's plan to increase his employees' salaries, which City Council members call unfair to workers in other city departments and agencies who will not get pay bumps.

As he prepared to take office, Mayor Lenny Curry asked the city's constitutional offices to submit a budget that didn't include increases. However, Holland included $365,000 in raises he said were necessary to match other offices in the state and prevent employees from leaving.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-07-25/story/city-hall-property-appraiser-odds-over-salary-increases#cxrecs_s

[jaxnyc79]

I'm no expert on local govt salaries and department politics...but I think I side with Holland. At minimum, I have no problem with him asking for it in his budget, if he has to defend it to a Council challenge then so be it, let him do that.
The Mayor "asked" that they not include increases but if I was a department head that thought it was a real issue regarding the performance of my department, I would probably request it at least and let the Mayor or Council tell me no. At least he's standing up for his employees.

I guess most those dept heads serve at the Mayors pleasure (??) so I'm sure politics plays a factor. According to the article, thats a long time with no raises and it sounds like there were some pay cuts a while ago that were supposed to be reinstated that weren't.

If Holland is truly losing good people at a significant rate then how can you blame him for asking for it.

Sure there is more to this I don't know but the counterpoint is lame in my opinion. Don't increase one dept because other depts aren't being increased. Need better reasoning than that for me. If the other depts really needed it they should have bucked the mayor and asked for it anyway.

What is the reason that the Mayor and/or Council don't have budget approval over the PA office? Sure there is a reason for that, curious to hear what that is.

I don't work in the public sector...never have...never will.  Having said that, I believe in efficient and competent government to carry out government functions.  Can someone explain to me the complete picture here?  How can city employees go 5 years with no raises, and the city not end up being run by knuckleheads?  Is that why there's no decent code enforcement, and why we can't get the zoning code rewritten to reflect the fact that Jacksonville is not just a highway pitstop?  Are retirement benefits so lush that we've strategically decided to significantly under-pay the market?

[coredumped]

The benefits need to be taken in to consideration. Nobody gets more time off than government employees. It's also pretty much impossible to get fired. And I'm not sure if they qualify, but they may be getting a pension too.
Not all city employees are bad and incompetent, but generally the level of service from these things are very low. The government tends to hire the unemployable

[brainstormer]

I am with Holland on this one. We should have competent, experienced people working in the property appraiser's office and modest raises and bonuses should show that we appreciate and reward people who work hard for our city.

[vicupstate]

I'm no expert on local govt salaries and department politics...but I think I side with Holland. At minimum, I have no problem with him asking for it in his budget, if he has to defend it to a Council challenge then so be it, let him do that.
The Mayor "asked" that they not include increases but if I was a department head that thought it was a real issue regarding the performance of my department, I would probably request it at least and let the Mayor or Council tell me no. At least he's standing up for his employees.

I guess most those dept heads serve at the Mayors pleasure (??) so I'm sure politics plays a factor. According to the article, thats a long time with no raises and it sounds like there were some pay cuts a while ago that were supposed to be reinstated that weren't.

If Holland is truly losing good people at a significant rate then how can you blame him for asking for it.

Sure there is more to this I don't know but the counterpoint is lame in my opinion. Don't increase one dept because other depts aren't being increased. Need better reasoning than that for me. If the other depts really needed it they should have bucked the mayor and asked for it anyway.

What is the reason that the Mayor and/or Council don't have budget approval over the PA office? Sure there is a reason for that, curious to hear what that is.

The Property Appraiser is an elected position, so the Mayor cannot remove him from office the way he could department heads.  Needless to say that is a HUGE difference that completely explains why the others don't complain. According to a comment on the T-U site, (yes I realize that is suspect, but it sounded pretty legit), the rank and file have not had a raise in 9 years and have actually had a cut in pay since then.  That is pretty bad. Having good benefits is great, and they typically are much better in the public sector, but you can't feed your family with time off, unless you moonlight or something. The private sector cut pay and benefits too during the downturn, and I bet most have not returned to the prior level, or at least not once inflation is accounted for. 

There is also a false economy in paying low wages. The cost of turnover is substantial. You have to hire, train and 'learning curve' a person and that isn't free.  That person is not as productive as the one that left normally, and their coworkers have to divide their time too. I don't know how many employees the PA office has, but 30 turnovers in 3 years sounds pretty high to me.   

[Chris Hand]

What is the reason that the Mayor and/or Council don't have budget approval over the PA office? Sure there is a reason for that, curious to hear what that is.

Apache, for what it is worth, included below are links to a 2014 Fourth District Court of Appeal decision and a Sun-Sentinel article that should help to answer your question. A very similar dispute arose in Broward County between its Property Appraiser and Board of County Commissioners (the equivalent of our City Council).

In December 2014, the Court sided with the Property Appraiser, on the grounds that state law empowered the Florida Department of Revenue to set a property appraiser's budget so as to shield that budget from political pressures. The appellate court decision provides a very thorough discussion of the issue and is worth a read. 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fl-property-appraiser-ruling-20141210-story.html

http://www.4dca.org/opinions/Dec%202014/12-10-14/4D14-101.op.pdf

Though both a circuit court and appellate court ruled in favor of the property appraiser, the Broward County Commission has appealed to the Florida Supreme Court. You can track the progress of that appeal below. At this point, both parties have filed their initial briefs and the Court has not yet acted.

http://jweb.flcourts.org/pls/docket/ds_docket?p_caseyear=2015&p_casenumber=354&psCourt=FSC&psSearchType=

[mbwright]

I think state and local government jobs should be able to include funding for raises, at minimum, the Cost of Living that Social Security gets.  raises or no raises at the whim of the Governor, or mayor seems counter productive to keep good staff.

[mtraininjax]

Chiefs ask for things from the Mayor's office all the time. Holland, a former councilman, knows how to work the system. Go to the Mayor, ask, get turned down, go to city hall and ask for them to help out. Holland will get these eventually.