How All Aboard Florida Train Project Will Shift Traffic

[fieldafm]

I can't imagine Prasad making a public statement like that.

When I sat on the Florida Times Union Editorial Board, he mentioned it about three times during an interview. He also scoffed at the term 'Lexus Lane' about a half dozen times and really put on a good sales pitch against using sales tax revenue as a source to fund road construction... to which he equated to as taxing blue jeans to pay for roads (probably because local municipalities have more control over sales tax revenues, whereas toll revenue can be completely controlled by DOT entities and less because of altrusitic reasons).

My company handles a large number of the P3 deals nationwide for toll roads... there is certainly more evidence than just

general assumption

, especially when it comes to new toll roads. Most of the best investment opportunities are when existing high traffic count roads are tolled. Most brand new toll roads, like the FCE, often fail miserably to collect the necessary toll revenue that were projected to make them finanicially feasible. 

[Tacachale]

Is being the largest county without an expressway really taken as such a bad thing that they need to jump on the first chance to get one?

[thelakelander]

It's semantics. 295 is on the county line and the majority of Clay's population probably resides within 10 miles of it. The situation is certainly not like Panama City/Bay County. There, you have a city larger than all of Clay's, that's a major tourist destination with a port, airport, air force base and industry miles from I-10.

[tufsu1]

FCE makes sense for Clay County, the ONLY county in Florida without an Expressway.  Have you met anyone from the Clay Chamber of Commerce? 

perhaps you mean the largest county (in population) without an expressway....thanks for the booster talk

[simms3]

And speaking of SF highlighted earlier this week, it barely has limited access freeway in its city limits and is almost a million people.  Vancouver is another city that functions without highways.  Highways are *not* required to build a successful, thriving area that is in high demand and enjoyed by all.

[southsider1015]

And speaking of SF highlighted earlier this week, it barely has limited access freeway in its city limits and is almost a million people.  Vancouver is another city that functions without highways.  Highways are *not* required to build a successful, thriving area that is in high demand and enjoyed by all.

Vancouver is located in the coast, plus doesn't I-5 run north to it?  A bit different than Green Cove Springs.

Anyway you look at it, Clay County has no access and no major industry or job provider.  The hospital just opened up (thanks to SR 23), but what are the major job providers? 

There those who'd like to see Clay County along the map, considering its access to St. Johns River, and its location to Jacksonville and St. Johns County.

[simms3]

It doesnt take much to see that a big part of this is to get tracks into Orlando, no surprise there.  I'd like to see a breakdown of the amounts of private vs public money though.  All I know for sure is that the OIA station will be built by the airport (public) but I think everything else is private with maybe some government backed loans.  I don't think they would be building these huge TODs down south if they were looking for someone else to pay toimprove their trackage.  FECI and its multiple subsidiaries are looking a a bunch of diversified revenue streams coming from this thing once it's complete.

They plan to float $1.75 billion in tax-exempt bonds.  Tax free means that it's a tax payer subsidy, commonly known as corporate welfare.  Then there's the $1.6 billion application for Railroad Rehabilitation Infrastructure Financing loans that is a direct loan from the U.S. government.  That loan would leave the taxpayers on the hook.  There are no profitable passenger train lines in North America.  Guess who will pay for the track improvements once this scam falls apart?  You will as a tax payer.

If they want to build a brand new rail line for high speed trains that would be great, however, they want to upgrade existing track and have trains travel over ancient bridges and crossings that will never be able to handle real high speed trains.  These aren't real high speed trains they are planning on.  It will shave barely any travel time off and the cost of the ticket will be much higher than the gas and car depreciation to just get in a car from Miami and travel to Disney World in Orlando.  A family of four using the train?  It will cost $720 round trip to goto Disney from Miami.  I'm not sure if it makes any sense.  A CEO traveling to Miami for a business trip on a public train?  Not sure if that makes sense either.  Who is the planned demographic?  These are real questions that need to be asked and have legitimate answers before tax payers put up money.

I guess most of the posters here work for CSX? 

Funny does this guy even look at this site? We are tired of same old transportation BS that's forced down our throats. I am tired I having to get in my car and pay for parking downtown just to go 5 miles. I would love to go to Orlando\Miami\etc and not have to get in a car or a plane.

There's an existing bus and train system to service your needs.  It only costs $63 to travel from Jax to Miami on the train.  When was the last time you used this option?

Last time I went to Miami, actually.  Which was about two years ago.  In the meantime my taxes have been spent to maintain a massive highway system for your use to drive down there.

Cool, at least you're walking the walk.  I used the commuter train every day when I worked in Chicago because I sold my car when I moved up there in the late 90's.  Also used the commuter trains in SF, Boston, New York while visiting and had fantastic experiences.  It's a great thing for the right application. 

Destroying communities on the east coast by ramming a bunch of freight trains to the tune of an additional 32 trains per day doesn't add up for Florida.  Unfortunately the train companies have tied these track improvements to the cause of public transportation, effectively hoodwinking millions of well meaning folks that will support this illusion at any cost. 

This is classic corporate bait and switch.  Follow the money...

You do make a decent point here.  If I were a resident of FL to be impacted by more trains, I personally would probably be a little up in arms over increased freight train traffic.  Fortunately there is more oversight and public input for rail projects involving these types of railways because there is generally a lot at stake and railways have that unique position of being privately owned/managed public utilities.  Having more freight rail traffic going by my house or in a path of daily commute for me would be a concern, especially if said freight traffic is known to carry toxic loads (even as "harmless" as coal and other fossil fuels).

That being said, few communities in this country are truly in a position where they can pick and choose and gripe about things such as this, and FL is not one of them, if it wants to continue to grow and prosper into such a community.

Few communities in this country are truly past the general stage of industrial growing pains and firmly and purely in the grasp of white collar growth and prosperity.  FL is not one of these states.  In fact, the urbanized west coast and DC-Boston corridor (with a few exceptions such as Baltimore and perhaps Philly, parts of Jersey) are the only parts of this country that can nitpick over this sort of stuff and not miss out on economic development.  Like parts of western Europe and parts of Asia, these areas are the most advanced, developed parts of human civilization this world has.  FL is definitely not part of that club.

I'm not saying roll over.  Fight the fight.  Make sure there are features in place to limit environmental damage or potential disasters, but frankly, all FL's got are its tourists and retirees.  If AAF is a way to help properly urbanize and connect the state, but it requires putting up with more freight traffic, then it's a fairly small price to pay for incredible long term gains.

[Know Growth]

There are many highway projects taxpayers subsidize that don't have to happen. Two that come to mind are the First Coast Expressway (Outer Beltway) and Wekiva Parkway (Orlando area).
there's complete silence concerning the amount of tax dollars being shelled out for projects like these two.

Well,there was relatively complete 'silence',lack of 'press' coverage for many years during key,pivotal events that would eventually formally authorize the First Coast Expressway and related development vesting.

[Know Growth]

Come On Aboard! now-'fees up

Brannon/ Chaffee  Sector Plan      (dang that stupid Slash; Stupid Is As Stupid Does  )

Per Clay County B/C Sector Plan Proceedings Transmittal to Tallahassee DCA; Future Railway Corridor. (A matter of Public Record, which should be easily accessed)

"Yea!!!"

Certainly placated a Clay Today "Reporter".

[Ocklawaha]

Considering that just off the top of my head I can think of at least 25-30 locales where 100-160 daily trains roar past, nearly all of these are freight trains thanks to Amtrak's myopic view of everything but the NEC. 30-50 daily freight and passenger trains on the FEC RY which will once again be all double tracked, is going to be a classic case of: "Much Ado About Nothing."

[acme54321]

http://realtime.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2015/08/05/all-aboard-florida-bonds-get-vote-today/

All Aboard Florida plans to market $1.75 billion in tax exempt bonds within the month following an unprecedented vote Wednesday empowering the private company to proceed with its express passenger rail project.

The 3-0 approval by the Florida Development Finance Corp. is a momentous step for the Miami to Orlando train, and followed five hours of ardent pleas from supporters and opponents of the plan.

More than 300 people from throughout South Florida, the Treasure and Space coasts, and Orlando attended the long-awaited meeting held in downtown Orlando, traveling by busload in the hope they could influence the board that held All Aboard Florida's fate.

The FDFC is a 5-member board, but one seat is vacant and member Kevin Hale was absent.

A successful sale of the the $1.75 billion in bonds, which will be marketed to accredited investors and institutional buyers at no risk to taxpayers, will mean All Aboard Florida can pay for its $2.5 billion project. It will also be able to pay off $450 million in high-risk bonds it sold last year to begin construction on the Miami to West Palm Beach leg.

"We're obviously very pleased with the outcome of the vote and see it as an affirmation of our project," said All Aboard Florida President Michael Reininger.

All Aboard Florida plans to run 32 passenger trains per day on the Florida East Coast Railway tracks, bisect historic neighborhoods and high-end communities from Miami to Cocoa. New tracks will be built between Cocoa and Orlando. Trains will stop in Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach between Miami and Orlando.

Statement by Brent Hanlon – CARE FL, treasurer and Jupiter resident.

"Despite the compelling, heartfelt, and hard hitting testimony from residents from the Treasure Coast and N. Palm Beach regions – the FDFC Board has voted as expected – approving an almost $1.8 billion tax-free windfall to All Aboard Florida.

"Treasure Coast local and state elected leaders urged the FDFC to learn more about the negative impacts of the proposed rail project before putting the safety, and financial wellbeing of Floridians at risk.

"Even more egregious is the U.S.DOT's issuance of the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS), which will now lead us to the next stage of the battle for the rights of our communities."