Now with money, Amtrak wants more trains in Florida

[thelakelander]

I don't remember this ever making the paper locally, but we should be all over this, especially with Congress approving a bill to give $15 billion for Amtrak investments over the next five years. 

Amtrak Proposes Intercity Rail Ideas

By RICH SHOPES, The Tampa Tribune

Published: March 5, 2008

TAMPA - Amtrak officials are pitching a plan for increased train service between Florida cities, including Tampa and Orlando.

The rail agency hopes Florida will embrace intercity rail as roads become clogged and gas prices soar.

Amtrak would like to eventually see trains running back and forth between cities such as Tampa and Orlando, or Jacksonville and Miami.

Rail officials are in the midst of a weeklong swing through the state to meet local officials and tout the advantages of rail.

On Monday, Amtrak officials met with state Reps. Ed Homan, R-Temple Terrace, and Dennis Ross, R-Lakeland, and state Sen. Paula Dockery, R-Lakeland. Tuesday, they met in Tampa with Mayor Pam Iorio.

"By Friday, we'll be in Miami," said Ray Lang, senior director of state and local government affairs for the quasigovernmental agency.

Iorio said that she welcomes the idea of increased train service between Tampa and Orlando but has no illusions about the fiscal hardships facing the state.

"I think it is very positive," she said. "I think it makes a lot of sense to have a reliable service ... but this would cost the state money at a time when the state is trying to cut costs."

Amtrak already offers limited service in Tampa. The Silver Meteor and the Silver Star make two stops daily at Union Station in Tampa on a route that extends all the way to New York.

Unlike the long-haul trains, intercity rail is designed to have trains running shorter routes between two or more cities in a state, traditionally with multiple trips each day.

Fourteen states have deals with Amtrak for intercity rail. The largest is California, which pays the rail agency $84 million a year to run 16 daily roundtrips between Oakland and Sacramento and 10 daily roundtrips from Los Angeles to San Diego.

On the low end is Vermont. It pays $4 million for a single daily roundtrip from New York to Montpelier, the state's capital, and to St. Albans near Lake Champlain and the Canadian border.

Amtrak officials stress that no routes or station stops have been decided in Florida, though they hope their tour will drum up support for the idea.

"That would be up to the state to decide. They might want to run from Jacksonville to Miami to start with," Lang said.

Creating a plan and gaining legislative approval could take years.

So far, Lang isn't sure where state officials stand. After meeting with Dockery, Homan and Ross, he said he hoped Amtrak officials might be called by a legislative committee at some point to explain the program.

Dockery said that it might make more sense to partner with Amtrak than to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to create a 61-mile commuter line in Central Florida.

The state and CSX are working on a deal estimated at $491 million.

That plan is controversial. Most of the money would go to CSX to pay for upgrades on its existing freight lines. Only $150 million would go toward the commuter line.

Many locals, citing traffic concerns, also have objected to CSX's plan to locate a freight hub in Winter Haven.

"Amtrak can run a passenger rail line without having to buy the line and without the state having to buy the line," Dockery said.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/05/na-amtrak-proposes-intercity-rail-ideas/

[RiversideGator]

Good news!  Jacksonville to Miami and Jacksonville to Atlanta are 2 desperately needed routes IMO.  Any word on the ATL connection?

[thelakelander]

Amtrak officials stress that no routes or station stops have been decided in Florida, though they hope their tour will drum up support for the idea.

"That would be up to the state to decide. They might want to run from Jacksonville to Miami to start with," Lang said.

We have the opportunity to be a factor in the planning of a potential system connecting us to South Florida down the FEC line.

Miami-to-Jacksonville rail link may gain steam

Wednesday, April 16, 2008

A long-discussed plan for passenger rail service along Florida's East Coast between Miami and Jacksonville may receive a push Friday.

The Treasure Coast Regional Planning Council is set to consider a resolution urging Gov. Charlie Crist and other state and federal officials to ask Amtrak to conduct a preliminary analysis and ridership forecast on providing service along the corridor.

"This is a great opportunity for everyone," said Kim Delaney, the council's growth management coordinator. "Transit is a high priority for all of the communities along the Treasure Coast."

The idea is nothing new. In 2001, Amtrak and the Florida East Coast Railway reached an agreement that would have allowed twice-a-day service along the east coast, with stops in Stuart, Fort Pierce and Vero Beach.

But the plan stalled a couple of years later because of Amtrak's financial problems. The carrier is once again in a position to consider new alignments.

Amtrak now runs on the CSX Transportation tracks in Florida, bypassing a big section of the east coast.

Between Miami and West Palm Beach, Amtrak trains share the tracks next to Interstate 95 with Tri-Rail. North to West Palm Beach, Amtrak travels west through Central Florida and to Tampa before heading back east to Jacksonville.

The east coast route ties into a state study now under way to revive passenger service on the FEC through Palm Beach, Broward and Miami-Dade counties. If a multitude of details can be worked out, it would be another four to five years at the earliest before commuter trains use the FEC, which goes through the heart of 28 South Florida cities.

Several alternatives are being considered to link the CSX and FEC lines in the West Palm Beach-Mangonia Park area.

"It's kind of a natural dovetail and complement to that work," Delaney said.

Service along the east coast also would tie into the development of the Orlando area commuter rail. Long-term plans call for the Orlando line to connect to the east coast.

Last year, more than 840,000 passengers boarded or got off Amtrak trains in Florida, including 43,643 at the West Palm Beach station. Statewide ridership was up 10 percent over 2006.

The not-for-profit planning council, which includes 19 elected officials and nine gubernatorial appointees, coordinates planning efforts in Palm Beach, Martin, St. Lucie and Indian River counties.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/business/content/local_news/epaper/2008/04/16/0416eastcoastrail.html?cxntlid=inform_artr

[thelakelander]

Good news!  Jacksonville to Miami and Jacksonville to Atlanta are 2 desperately needed routes IMO.  Any word on the ATL connection?

Here you go.

Commuter rail supports look to Amtrak for hope

By Daniel Silliman

dsilliman@news-daily.com

Amtrak has designated a Southeastern high speed rail line, stretching from Charlotte, N.C. through Atlanta and Macon, to Jacksonville, Fla., a "high priority."

Looking at the designation, regional supporters of metro-Atlanta's proposed commuter-rail line hope the national passenger train company could come in, bolster, and push the local effort.

Georgians for the Brain Train is looking at ways to link Amtrak's proposed high speed line, and its funding, with the commuter rail. The group considers a partnership as one of the ways the rail could become a reality after languishing for years, according to spokesman Paul Snyder.

Mac Collins, the former Republican congressman who has been working with commuter rail supporters, said the local rail effort might realize gains from turning to Amtrak.

"I think there's a good possibility, in fact, that Amtrak could be engaged," Collins said. "There are areas of the country that have set up a commuter rail and there are places you can go for a lot of ideas."

Steve Kuni, a consultant with Rail South LLC, which is closely tied to the National Association of Rail Passengers, said Georgia ought to look to North Carolina for an example of a successful rail service. It was formed with an Amtrak partnership. Local governments partnered with Amtrak, in North Carolina, and Amtrak contracted with Norfolk Southern (NS), to run the Amtrak trains on the NS lines.

"Amtrak is involved with just about every major commuter system in the United States," Kuni said. "It may not have 'Amtrak on the locomotive, but Amtrak is an administrative, or operative position within that service."

Currently, Amtrak runs lines from Washington to Miami through Charlotte, and from Charlotte to Birmingham, Ala. through Atlanta. They have designated the need for a connecting corridor between Atlanta and Jacksonville, through Macon and Jesup, Ga., Kuni said. "The corporation's planners believe that the corridor, connecting the two existing lines, has "all kinds of commercial viability," Kuni said. "I've had them tell me, 'If we can get this train running, it would be tough to get a ticket on it," said Kuni.

A 2005 Amtrak report shows that Georgia passenger trains have consistently posted solid increases in traffic. That same year, an Amtrak study forecast in 2025, a southeastern high speed corridor rail line could carry between 378,000 and 930,000 passengers a year.

If Amtrak does move into the metro-Atlanta area, partnering with the corporation could hold significant promise for the commuter rail, Kuni said. He argues the advantages with Amtrak are "multi-fold."

Amtrak already has an operating agreement with Norfolk Southern, so no new operating agreement would have to be negotiated. Amtrak has liability insurance, the infrastructure for marketing and ticketing, and "knows how to get the money," Kuni said. It already has the needed operating experience, he added.

"Any other approach," Kuni said, "is reinventing the wheel. [Amtrak] can instruct GDOT from the cradle to the grave on how to do this, and Norfolk Southern will sign off on it."

At this point, however, the Georgia Department of Transportation is not interested in working with Amtrak, said spokesman Mark McKinnon.

Though the department's studies are looking at "best options" and could consider an Amtrak arrangement, negotiations have, so far, been with Norfolk Southern.

"We're not considering any agreements with Amtrak," McKinnon said. "Amtrak uses the Norfolk Southern line so we wouldn't negotiate with them, we would [go directly to Norfolk Southern]."

However, GDOT has worked with Amtrak before, while looking at the need for a rail line from Atlanta to Macon.

In May 2004, Amtrak, GDOT and the Georgia Rail Passenger Authority jointly released a study analyzing the possibility of a new, high-speed line between Macon and Charlotte, which would connect to continuing service in the Washington D.C. to Boston corridor. The study found the southeastern corridor "is part of a rapidly growing corridor with a very good market potential." The drawback found in the study was the need for improving the 130-year-old rail lines, flattening hills and straightening curves so the high-speed train could travel speeds of 79 to 110 miles per hour. Between Atlanta and Macon, however, the improvements would be needed for both the high-speed and the commuter rail traffic.

Even if the state doesn't consider a partnership with Amtrak to launch the commuter line, Kuni said he believes that Amtrak is still necessary and believes county and city governments along the rail line could bypass the state to get the partnership.

"Formulate a plan for a multi-jurisdictional transit rail council," Kuni said. "Then, they can cut their own deal with Amtrak. If the counties would do that, it would show that the Department of Transportation is the emperor with no clothes."

It is possible that the end-run around GDOT already is underway. Georgians for the Brain Train is planning a summit, sometime in the spring, for all the governmental authorities along the rail line.

Snyder said the goal of the summit would be to reach an agreement on a funding mechanism -- something all the counties and cities will sign and present to the state legislature. There are only a few degrees of distance, Kuni points out, between co-signing a proposal for a special tax district and signing to form a council with the authority to negotiate.

In a policy paper Kuni submitted to GDOT's Intermodal Planning Committee, earlier this year when the commuter rail was headed for a "live-or-die vote," he suggested the real problems in launching the line are political, not practical.

"It is a political issue and should not be," Kuni wrote: "GA owes much of its industrial legacy to the railroad. This isn't nostalgia, it's fact. The most important part of the defeat of The Confederacy was [Union Gen. William] Sherman's ability to wreck the rail system. And until that system was restored, the South was not restored. It is time to find the value, once again, in railroads."

http://www.news-daily.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=2&ArticleID=22754

[Coolyfett]

Good news!  Jacksonville to Miami and Jacksonville to Atlanta are 2 desperately needed routes IMO.  Any word on the ATL connection?

I thought Jax - Mia existed??  Jax - Atl would be perfect, but I really want the Jax - NO train back running. That one did exist, the tracks have been repaired but for some reason they won't run the train back to Cali from FL...Ock what's up with that???

[copperfiend]

I love the ideas discussed here. This is the future.

[thelakelander]

Sunset Limited bill is on track
Taylor hopes route restored soon

SUN HERALD

A bill to have Amtrak restore the Sunset Limited run from New Orleans to Sanford, Fla., was approved by the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, Rep. Gene Taylor announced Thursday.

The bill, H.R. 6003, is a five-year authorization of Amtrak. The provision includes $1 million for Amtrak to study the Sunset Limited route. If passed, Amtrak would have to submit its report within nine months of the bill being enacted.

"As a co-sponsor of this legislation, I am grateful that the committee included the study for the Sunset Limited route," Taylor said in a news release. "This is just one more step in the hurricane recovery process, and I hope the route is soon restored so we can return transportation on the Gulf Coast to what it was before Hurricane Katrina."

The route was disrupted by Hurricane Katrina. Before then, the passenger rail ran through the Coast three times a week.

SEC. 218. PLAN FOR RESTORATION OF SERVICE.
Here is the section of H.R. 6003 that would instruct Amtrak to report the Sunset Limited plan:

(a) In General- Not later than 9 months after the date of enactment of this Act, Amtrak shall transmit to the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure of the House of Representatives and the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation of the Senate a plan for restoring passenger rail service between New Orleans, Louisiana, and Sanford, Florida. The plan shall include a projected timeline for restoring such service, the costs associated with restoring such service, and any proposals for legislation necessary to support such restoration of service. In developing the plan, Amtrak shall consult with representatives from the States of Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, and Florida, railroad carriers whose tracks may be used for such service, rail passengers, rail labor, and other entities as appropriate.


(b) Authorization of Appropriations- There are authorized to be appropriated to the Secretary of Transportation to enable Amtrak to conduct the study under this subsection $1,000,000.

REP. GENE TAYLOR'S OFFICE

http://www.sunherald.com/business/story/581035.html

[Driven1]

great find Lake...no clue why our news can't pick this up.  my guess is that the T-U editorial board is still in love with the idea of an "outer beltway" way out on the westside.

[Ocklawaha]

I really want the Jax - NO train back running. That one did exist, the tracks have been repaired but for some reason they won't run the train back to Cali from FL...Ock what's up with that???

The Sunset Limited, could be - shoud be - would be, North America's :TREN Numbero Uno!

What's up is that Katrina + Bush gave Amtrak all the reason it needed to cut off the Florida end of a troubled train. The Sunset is/was unique. It was America's only true transcontinental train, but it also was at the mercy of the Union Pacific for 2/3 of it's route, New Orleans - Los Angeles. UP or "Uncle Pete" is not now nor have they ever been very kind to Amtrak. Though it's aginst the law, give them a chance, and the Sunset Limited will sit in some remote swamp, waiting for a local switch freight to get out of the way. 1,000's of these type cases were just the subject of an Amtrak protest and a court settlement, but looks like it didn't do a damn thing for schedule keeping.

Add to this the logistics of origination or termination in Orlando, a City without any real rail facilities
and you end up with dirty cars, unstocked food, waterless fountains and broken heat or AC.

Lastly, add in a really bad schedule at our end. That and major cities spaced so that the single tri-weekly train can't serve all of the markets in good time windows.

THE SOLUTION:

The best solution to the Sunset, is abandon it! Replace it in the East with a daily "pocket streamliner" take the name and use the same route, and we reincarnate the "GULF WIND". Have it leave Jacksonville in the early AM daylight (FROM DOWNTOWN)... DAILY! 365/7! Out of Jax and New Orleans in the early AM and they meet somewhere around Crestview... on they speed, making the other terminus by late evening of the same day. Passenger counts would soar. Quick, you have the chance to see Aunt Bertie in Pensacola, leaving Jax at 11 pm an arriving at 3 AM -OR- you can leave at 8 am and be in Pensacola for lunch.

At the end points, send the Gulf Wind's through coach and sleeper to and from Miami via a new FEC overnight train to Miami. Leaving Jax at 11:45 pm and rolling into Miami 8:15 am. Ditto any Tampa bound cars. This would require flipping one of our current East Coast Amtrak trains. This would be a good thing since the damn things come through back to back only an hour or two apart. So much for choice.

In New Orleans, the Sunset has left town, but that's okay. The coach and sleeper may be occupied until 7AM at New Orleans Union Terminal. Even more exciting is the new train to Baton Rouge, or the Baton Rouge - Shreveport - Dallas - Ft. Worth - El Paso route, that LA and TX, are going to ask for. If the schedule is worked out, the Gulf Wind might just continue on West. Otherwise some of it's cars certainly could.

Finally the SUNSET LIMITED, Amtrak trains #1 and 2 (a position of honor) should be a model of North American rail travel, rather then the tail of the Amtrak dog. The sister train from New Orleans to San Antonio or El Paso known as the SUNBEAM, should be put back on the schedule to give some choice to the traveling public.

If we don't get serious about building back our own Union Terminal and giving the trains some room to work.
To be the "Jacksonville International Airport Railroad Terminal" for the whole State of Florida, we must make a place to origianate, terminate, service, stock, break down and make up passenger trains. Anything less and our last "HUB" will move to Orlando. Ever wonder why Orlando is pushing for that rail link to the Space Coast?
They know as soon as they link to the FEC, all Amtrak services could be worked from Mickey Union Terminal rather then Jacksonville.


Sarasota-Bradenton and/or the Ft. Myers-Naples connection just prior to Amtrak (about 1970)

Look for proposals between:

Jacksonville - Miami via the FEC
Jacksonville - Tampa via Ocala
Sarasota and Ft Myers service from Tampa or Lakeland
Jacksonville - Tampa via the currently (partly) abandoned CSX via Brooksville - Dunnellon - Alachua - Starke
Jacksonville - Atlanta
Jacksonville - Montgomery
Jacksonville - Columbia - Charlotte
Jacksonville - Norfolk (connecting train)

Hope this helps start the protest, the activists need to shout loud or WALK!

Ocklawaha

[Coolyfett]

great find Lake...no clue why our news can't pick this up.  my guess is that the T-U editorial board is still in love with the idea of an "outer beltway" way out on the westside.

You have got to be kidding me lol.

So I take the NO - Jax connection will be back huh...Lake do you thing they will have it running before 9 months or do they have to go though the 9 month process?

[thelakelander]

The bill passed, so from my understanding, Amtrak will have to 9 months to complete their study.  So its probably still over a good year away from running again.

[Seraphs]

Interesting!  I agree Jax to Atl would be ideal. 

[Ocklawaha]

Lake I think we need an article and a poll to test this theory. The bottom line is we produce a list of services that are desired and make it official MJ dogma. The routes don't even have to serve Florida, but they would have to effect us in some way. For example, a much needed train from New York - Washington - Lynchburg - Knoxville - Chattanooga - Memphis - Little Rock - Tulsa, would effect us with possible thruogh cars to and from the west at Chattanooga. In other words, you could get tucked into bed in the last coach or sleeper of the train, and wake up speeding between Valdosta and Jacksonville on a Jacksonville bound train.

Though modern "thought" at Amtrak has sometimes wanted to kill en-route switching, it remains one of the greatest strengths of rail travel. The ability to consolidate or break down passenger loads by destination, with little or no delay.

Once we produce our list of trains, it can be published. We CAN become a voice for Amtrak, and a bridge between Amtrak-JTA and the City-State. We can be the voice that determines that North Florida get's it's fair share. It's time to take a stand, I'm willing to kick this off, just say the word. FYI, Tampa has already come up with a plan to push rail to Brooksville and perhaps Dunnellon, if they do this, it will involve rebuilding a long vacant West Coast Mainline. Now imagine that Jacksonville pushed for and got the rebuild of the Baldwin Rail Trail (as a passenger route) and hence south of Mattox and the current CSX mainlne to Union City, Lake Butler, Alachua (track in place from Alachua - Gainesville) Gainesville - Rochelle - Micanopy - Ocala (return to current CSX line at Ocala). How interesting would this be?

Ocklawaha

[urbanlibertarian]

If they put rail back on the Jax-Baldwin ROW would the current use have to be completely eliminated?

[Ocklawaha]

Urban Libertarian,

I think you are confused about the Baldwin CSX lines. There are FOUR. From the center of Baldwin, one runs North Northeast to Callahan. At Callahan the line from Baldwin intersects the mainilne to New York, Jax, Orlando, as well as Atlanta, Birmingham and Chicago.

Line 2 runs alongside US highway 90 from Baldwin to Union Station downtown. Many if not most of Florida's through trains operate over some or part of this line every day... maybe every few minutes.

Line 3 runs west of Baldwin, thhrough Olustee, Lake City, Tallahassee, and W
est to New Orleans. In the big easy it links to the Western USA railroads allowing Jax to be the Atlantic anchor in a vibrant transcontinental route.

With all of the angels it's impossible to imagine any of these railroads changing very much, if at all. I COULD see some future use for the old bike trail route but it would take iron will on the part of the city