O.K. Seriously....why isn't there a taco bell downtown?

[Jaxson]

I think that a successful downtown has a diverse selection of dining options.  It is good, in my opinion, to have a mix of low-, middle- and high-brow eateries.  One reason why I like going to other cities is because I enjoy seeing that a thriving central business district is possible.  I am not sure what has been holding us back, but I have seen progress. 
I am still confounded as to why Starbucks has not taken hold in downtown Jacksonville.  That should be a no-brainer, but this is Jacksonville, I guess.
Back to the topic.  I don't begrudge someone their Taco Bell fix.  I guess that it's a matter of taste and wanting a quick meal in a short amount of time.  I am not a fan of places that seem to be deliberately understaffing and forcing customers to queue up for miles.  Big pet peeve of mine. 

[menace1069]

I think the point is that there is a dearth of fast food right downtown, which is super atypical of any downtown.  Not sure why this is the case, but having a couple Subways (open 24 hours), McDonald's (again, open 24 hours), and other fast options (perhaps Chipotle) would be typical and a nice, convenient option in any city.

In the Bostons, San Franciscos, and New Yorks of the world, there are "local" fast food joints that are superior (by far) to the national chains but still fast and cheap.  Also grab-n-go spots (Proper Food is a super cheap, grab-n-go option opening up 10 new locations here in the financial district).

The other obvious question is why there isn't a single Starbucks downtown.  I'm not a fan, myself, but I look at this as some sort of sign that there is an inherent issue downtown if a Starbucks does not see a reason to open a location there.  I realize there used to be two.  Two would make sense for a city Jacksonville's size.  Maybe even 3.  Why are the real estate departments of these major major corporations avoiding downtown Jacksonville?

It's crazy that Jax doesn't have a Starbucks downtown. I agree 100% that it's a good barometer for what's happening (or isn't) downtown. On a separate note, I was at the St Johns Town Centre one day and realized I could stand in a spot and see three Starbucks locations (sort of) - the main Starbucks, Barnes and Noble (which has a Starbucks) and Target (which has a Starbucks).

You ever been to San Francisco? There is a SB literally every block. Try doing a google search for SB in SF and look at all the pins.

[David]

Someone get on it: http://www.tacobellfranchise.com/faq

http://www.eater.com/2014/12/3/7327133/how-much-it-costs-to-open-a-taco-bell

I'm a little short on cash.

[Adam White]

I think the point is that there is a dearth of fast food right downtown, which is super atypical of any downtown.  Not sure why this is the case, but having a couple Subways (open 24 hours), McDonald's (again, open 24 hours), and other fast options (perhaps Chipotle) would be typical and a nice, convenient option in any city.

In the Bostons, San Franciscos, and New Yorks of the world, there are "local" fast food joints that are superior (by far) to the national chains but still fast and cheap.  Also grab-n-go spots (Proper Food is a super cheap, grab-n-go option opening up 10 new locations here in the financial district).

The other obvious question is why there isn't a single Starbucks downtown.  I'm not a fan, myself, but I look at this as some sort of sign that there is an inherent issue downtown if a Starbucks does not see a reason to open a location there.  I realize there used to be two.  Two would make sense for a city Jacksonville's size.  Maybe even 3.  Why are the real estate departments of these major major corporations avoiding downtown Jacksonville?

It's crazy that Jax doesn't have a Starbucks downtown. I agree 100% that it's a good barometer for what's happening (or isn't) downtown. On a separate note, I was at the St Johns Town Centre one day and realized I could stand in a spot and see three Starbucks locations (sort of) - the main Starbucks, Barnes and Noble (which has a Starbucks) and Target (which has a Starbucks).

You ever been to San Francisco? There is a SB literally every block. Try doing a google search for SB in SF and look at all the pins.

Last time I was in SF, it was before Starbucks became a big deal (I think it was 1988 or 1989). I might just Google that to see what you mean.

Edit: but the real question is, how many Taco Bells do they have?

[finehoe]

http://www.mystore411.com/store/list_city/15/California/San+Francisco/Starbucks-store-locations

http://www.mystore411.com/store/list_city/87/California/San+Francisco/Taco-Bell-store-locations

[Bativac]

Regarding the Starbucks in the 11 E building, am I mistaken, or didn't they have an agreement that the lease was free for a number of years? And to get out of it, they had to pay a penalty? Which speaks to the kind of business they must have been doing, to warrant paying to get out of a free lease. And I know there was a Subway downtown - near Hemming maybe? - awhile back.

Downtown now is different than it was a few years ago, so maybe it would be able to support a coffee shop or a fast food joint better. But someone has to: 1) be willing to take the financial risk, not just put out a press release, and 2) deal with the city's weird downtown sign ordinance. Which does not seem to have hurt 7-11 but downtown was so desperate for convenience stores that I don't see how those could do anything BUT succeed.

It seems like downtown has gained residents over the past few years, but outside of Hemming Plaza when there's an event, the place still looks half empty outside regular 9-5 business hours. It's not enough of a destination, unless you want to hang out at a bar, dance club, or restaurant. There's not any kind of shopping district and the downtown parks are pretty lousy.

Still, this isn't San Francisco, and to compare it to a place like that is absurd.

(For the record - I like Burrito Gallery, but it's not always the fastest. And Taco Bell isn't trying to be authentic Mexican cuisine. It is what it is, and it would be nice to have ANY new quick food choices downtown.)

[menace1069]

Still, this isn't San Francisco, and to compare it to a place like that is absurd.

I wasn't comparing Jax to SF as far as development. If you take a look at my comment, it was in response the person who stated they could see 3 separate SB standing one spot.


{Previous comment - On a separate note, I was at the St Johns Town Centre one day and realized I could stand in a spot and see three Starbucks locations (sort of) - the main Starbucks, Barnes and Noble (which has a Starbucks) and Target (which has a Starbucks).}

[Houseboat Mike]

.

(For the record - I like Burrito Gallery, but it's not always the fastest. And Taco Bell isn't trying to be authentic Mexican cuisine. It is what it is, and it would be nice to have ANY new quick food choices downtown.)

Exactly. Sometimes you just want a Mexican Pizza, no matter how absurd the notion of a Mexican Pizza actually is. 

[Overstreet]

I have the feeling that the problem is not directly related to the food business but the remaining customer base. Many companies have moved out of downtown for cheaper office space and amenities like free parking.  Downtown does not compete with the suburbs so the customer base that buys overprices Starbucks doesn't work there.  Remember too downtown is Monday through Friday breakfast and lunch.  I suspect Taco Bell needs all day and night to turn a profit.

Personally when the Burger King was open I stayed away  because of there were usually more panhandlers around the bus station.

[Houseboat Mike]

I have the feeling that the problem is not directly related to the food business but the remaining customer base. Many companies have moved out of downtown for cheaper office space and amenities like free parking.  Downtown does not compete with the suburbs so the customer base that buys overprices Starbucks doesn't work there.  Remember too downtown is Monday through Friday breakfast and lunch.  I suspect Taco Bell needs all day and night to turn a profit.

Personally when the Burger King was open I stayed away  because of there were usually more panhandlers around the bus station.

Good points, but don't forget there is a nightlife downtown, mainly around the elbow. If you centrally locate it around say Laura and Forsyth, it could serve the businesses during the day, and drunken revelers at night.

[simms3]

There should be enough court traffic to have a fast food joint, too.  The police station.  Homeless population.  Etc

Also, it blows my mind the office dynamic in Jax.  I refuse to believe the suburbs are that much "cheaper".  Rents are basically the same, and in some cases, due to desirability, higher on the SS and towards the beaches than they are in DT Jax.  In most cities, there *is* a discrepancy, and often a large one at that, between CBD and suburban rents/costs of housing workers.  In Jax, there doesn't appear to be really any discrepancy.  Jax also has the cheapest downtown parking of any city in America.  Consider that when making these arguments (are companies in Jax overall just "poor" compared to companies elsewhere such that paying for the cheapest downtown parking in America is still too much of a hurdle?).

I think nobody wants to live near downtown, certainly not corporate decision makers.  They all seem to live on SS/Beaches, and downtown is no longer on anyone's radar as a place that offers any compelling advantages since the worker base also seems to prefer the suburban/SS/beaches living options over downtown/urban core living options.  But this is all only semi-related to fast food downtown.

[fsquid]

There should be enough court traffic to have a fast food joint, too.  The police station.  Homeless population.  Etc

Also, it blows my mind the office dynamic in Jax.  I refuse to believe the suburbs are that much "cheaper".  Rents are basically the same, and in some cases, due to desirability, higher on the SS and towards the beaches than they are in DT Jax.  In most cities, there *is* a discrepancy, and often a large one at that, between CBD and suburban rents/costs of housing workers.  In Jax, there doesn't appear to be really any discrepancy.  Jax also has the cheapest downtown parking of any city in America.  Consider that when making these arguments (are companies in Jax overall just "poor" compared to companies elsewhere such that paying for the cheapest downtown parking in America is still too much of a hurdle?).

I think nobody wants to live near downtown, certainly not corporate decision makers.  They all seem to live on SS/Beaches, and downtown is no longer on anyone's radar as a place that offers any compelling advantages since the worker base also seems to prefer the suburban/SS/beaches living options over downtown/urban core living options.  But this is all only semi-related to fast food downtown.

Is there any other top 50 metro with this dynamic?  Top 75?

[mtraininjax]

I think nobody wants to live near downtown, certainly not corporate decision makers.  They all seem to live on SS/Beaches, and downtown is no longer on anyone's radar as a place that offers any compelling advantages since the worker base also seems to prefer the suburban/SS/beaches living options over downtown/urban core living options.  But this is all only semi-related to fast food downtown.

Its obvious as hell that no one wants to live downtown. Why is all of the residential development.....really on the southbank? Strand, Peninsula, and now Healthy-Town? Berkman has too much stigma, falling in streets, a bad Berkman II and its next to the police station, ugh. Might as well be senior living housing next.

Would you spend the same money for a place at the beach or downtown? Dollar for dollar, better options for housing elsewhere in Jacksonville, than downtown. Developers are going to have to use a helluva big carrot to bring dwellers downtown. Businesses, the same.

[Houseboat Mike]

Developers are going to have to use a helluva big carrot to bring dwellers downtown. Businesses, the same.

Free Taco Bell for a year if you buy a condo? 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Adam White]

I think nobody wants to live near downtown, certainly not corporate decision makers.  They all seem to live on SS/Beaches, and downtown is no longer on anyone's radar as a place that offers any compelling advantages since the worker base also seems to prefer the suburban/SS/beaches living options over downtown/urban core living options.  But this is all only semi-related to fast food downtown.

Its obvious as hell that no one wants to live downtown. Why is all of the residential development.....really on the southbank? Strand, Peninsula, and now Healthy-Town? Berkman has too much stigma, falling in streets, a bad Berkman II and its next to the police station, ugh. Might as well be senior living housing next.

Would you spend the same money for a place at the beach or downtown? Dollar for dollar, better options for housing elsewhere in Jacksonville, than downtown. Developers are going to have to use a helluva big carrot to bring dwellers downtown. Businesses, the same.

The only people that will live downtown are the sort of people who can't afford to live in places like Berkman, 11E, etc. Artists, musicians, etc. The kind of people that (over time) turn "undesirable" places into up-and-coming places. Gentrifiers.

Once those people start living downtown, businesses will slowly start opening to serve them. But the city and the developers want to skip all that and move right on to the part where young professionals and others want to live downtown. But that can't happen overnight. And you're not going to attract those people unless rents are affordable.