City flag lacks good design principles

[bencrix]

A quick google survey of NYC, Boston, LA, San Francisco, Boston, Seattle, Houston, Charlotte, Dallas, Atlanta, Portland, Chicago, DC and Phoenix flags indicate that most violate the "no seal or lettering" law. Based on the guidelines, it appears that the latter four are models (Portland, Chicago, DC & Phoenix)

[Andy]

TED Talk reference AND its about graphic design? UGH. Pretension and uselessness doubled. Bleh.

Calling the OP pretentious and useless when your contribution looks like this is pretty hypocritical.

[Jax Friend]

TED Talk reference AND its about graphic design? UGH. Pretension and uselessness doubled. Bleh.

Calling the OP pretentious and useless when your contribution looks like this is pretty hypocritical.

I am not calling OP pretentious. I am saying I find TED talks and people who go in hard on graphic design being some political tool to improve the city absolutely insufferable.  Circle-jerkin' fart sniffers.  If you disagree, feel free to do so. Just my opinion.

Than you live a narrow minded existence. Symbolism has been used to rally people behind one idea since antiquity. It is inescapably part of everything we identity with... To continue to try to break through this denseness would be a bad use of my time. 

[Jax Friend]

TED Talk reference AND its about graphic design? UGH. Pretension and uselessness doubled. Bleh.

Calling the OP pretentious and useless when your contribution looks like this is pretty hypocritical.

I am not calling OP pretentious. I am saying I find TED talks and people who go in hard on graphic design being some political tool to improve the city absolutely insufferable.  Circle-jerkin' fart sniffers.  If you disagree, feel free to do so. Just my opinion.

You called me on the circle-jerkin... Love'em...

[Jax Friend]

Congratulations Murder_me_Rachel, you've managed to turn this whole thread into a discussion of your indecency. God forbid intellectuals in their fields get up and speak to the masses about empirical scientific facts. Don't they know they are pompous a@#$%^es?

The discussion was flag design, not your problems with the world. I love my city and don't see how anything you have said has been constructive in that regard. This has been like sitting in on a city council meeting. 

[Jax Friend]

I think for Jacksonville to have a flag that is embraced city wide we have to find meaningful symbols that we all relate to. I think the categories of geography and economics are the two most important to draw from. We are on the Atlantic, we have the St. Johns, We basically are on the border with Georgia, We are a major port and Naval base. I think the trick is condensing down the identity of Jacksonville to its most basic geometric forms.

[bencrix]

sounds like someone who couldn't afford a ticket

Ted talks are pretty wonderful, and its a great way to democratize information that would otherwise be limited to the people who can afford to qualify for massive student loan debts.

I really like TED Talks too. You can watch them "for free" on the internet (assuming you've paid for access to the internet). You can listen to re-packaged talks freely on the WJCT. Attending an event is most assuredly cheaper than college tuition.

However, the cost & exclusiveness of their events has always bothered me. TED seems consciously structured as rather elitist -- in that sense, I'm not sure how effective or democratic they are outside of their niche (which I figure I probably inhabit, by the way). I wonder if TED is broadening the minds of people who already consider themselves to be broad-minded.

Back to flags, however. Graphic design is fundamental. But I was surprised how few city flags are any good. Jax is no exception there. (As an old Nation of Ulysses fan, I think DC's is the best).

[Charles Hunter]

How about the old CoJ flag?
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-fl-jk.html#old

Field white. In the upper left quarter is shown a gateway, from which diagonally across the field is projected a green pennon bearing in white letters the word "Jacksonville." In the center rising above the pennon is a brilliant red poinsettia with green foliage. In the lower left quarter the seal of Jacksonville is shown. The flag was designed by G.D. Ackerly and was adopted by the Council as the City's official flag January 15, 1914. The design denotes, "Jacksonville, the Gateway to Florida".
Doug Bloudoff, 20 February 2012

[Andy]

TED Talk reference AND its about graphic design? UGH. Pretension and uselessness doubled. Bleh.

Calling the OP pretentious and useless when your contribution looks like this is pretty hypocritical.

I am not calling OP pretentious. I am saying I find TED talks and people who go in hard on graphic design being some political tool to improve the city absolutely insufferable.  Circle-jerkin' fart sniffers.  If you disagree, feel free to do so. Just my opinion.

"Hey guys I think XXX are a bunch of Circle-jerkin' fart sniffers. No, I don't intend back that up with anything, it's just, like, my opinion. Deal with it! *oh please oh please someone argue with me*"

That old flag is pretty horrifying, but I never cared that much for the current flag either. The colors are my main problem, they seem to clash. I wonder if there was some sort of reason they chose those colors. Anybody know?

[taylormiller]

(just a copy and paste off wiki)
"The brown silhouette of a mounted Andrew Jackson is taken from a bronze statue in the downtown urban core. It represents the city's history and namesake. The sunburst represents a bright future. The map silhouette of the city/county with the St. Johns River through the middle shows the consolidated community and the large impact of the river. The color orange is significant in the sunshine state and two of Jacksonville's neighborhoods are named Mandarin and Orange Park.

A survey of flag design quality by the North American Vexillological Association ranked Jacksonville's flag the second best in Florida and 38th best of 150 American city flags. It earned a score 5.03 out of 10 based on simple design, meaningful symbolism, use of 2–3 basic colors, including no writing or seals, and is distinctive."

I bet they'd probably be ranked higher if they got rid of the "City of Jacksonville" wording, possibly lose the outline of Duval County and switched the orange and yellow color scheme to match the Seal:

[Andy]

"Hey guys I think XXX are a bunch of Circle-jerkin' fart sniffers. No, I don't intend back that up with anything, it's just, like, my opinion. Deal with it! *oh please oh please someone argue with me*"

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

Sorry you get so personally offended on someone offering an opinion different from yours.  And, I would much rather someone say, I agree, TED Talks are the absolute worst, pretentious bullshit ever, than argue with me.  But, go ahead and think what you want, I really couldn't possibly care less.

Your opinion isn't whats offensive, it's your general attitude towards everyone, all the time. Expressing an opinion and being a jerk about your opinion are different things. But whatever, conversation done.

Back to the flag, that does make sense about the colors matching the names of neighborhoods, I guess it just seems like a particularly loud orange. I don't think I would change anything even given the chance, because flags are rarely well designed anyway and at this point it's got a good deal of history behind it.

[UNFurbanist]

This is my quick attempt at making a better flag for Jacksonville. It holds on to a few of the original elements but I added a few more for symbolism. I can't decide if this is still too much but I think it is a step in the right direction.
blue- the St. Johns River
6 silver stars- represents the 6 areas of Jacksonville. Urban core, southside, northside, westside, Arlington and the beaches
red pyramid-  building a city upon the water even after the great fire of 1901
Andrew Jackson is the cities' namesake. (Although part of me wants to remove him just because of the negative connotation that follows him)
sun rays- a bright future in the sunshine state
trumpet- I placed this here as a nod to the music history of Jacksonville and the importance of the African American community

Thoughts?

[I-10east]

I think that the city's flag is fine as it is.

[Adam White]

I think that the city's flag is fine as it is.

I agree.

[Noone]

This is my quick attempt at making a better flag for Jacksonville. It holds on to a few of the original elements but I added a few more for symbolism. I can't decide if this is still too much but I think it is a step in the right direction.
blue- the St. Johns River
6 silver stars- represents the 6 areas of Jacksonville. Urban core, southside, northside, westside, Arlington and the beaches
red pyramid-  building a city upon the water even after the great fire of 1901
Andrew Jackson is the cities' namesake. (Although part of me wants to remove him just because of the negative connotation that follows him)
sun rays- a bright future in the sunshine state
trumpet- I placed this here as a nod to the music history of Jacksonville and the importance of the African American community

Thoughts?

Follow me to the Equestrian Center for Jumping Class!