Obama's Socialist Policies are Ruining American Economy

[finehoe]

Wage growth is as low now as it was since back in the 60s - which is another reason why you hear so much about the "wealth gap" Also, continuing to import millions of low skilled immigrants won't help that fact.

Wages have been stagnant since the turn of the Millennium, and even as far back as since the 1970s, especially where so much income and wealth has been funneled to the very topmost segment of society.  Also, the Obama Administration has deported more immigrants annually than the George W. Bush Administration.

But my question remains unaddressed.  How is it that we've heard for the last six years that the policies of the current administration are anti-capitalist, yet American capitalism is doing better than almost any place in the world?

[Gunnar]

I'm old enough to know that we're not fighting in the Middle East for oil. If we were, Iran and Saudi Arabia would have been attacked

Check this page for a comparison between Iran and Iraq and try to see if you can spot a few differences between the two that may be a reason why a war with Iran may not be such a good idea (hint: terrain, population).

http://www.indexmundi.com/factbook/compare/iran.iraq

As for Saudi Arabia - the consequences of attacking the country that holds the holiest of all muslim sites....
Plus, they are good buddies.

And in Iraq, they still control their own oil fields and refineries, at least the ones Isis hasn't taken over yet. So how many oil fields and refineries has the US staked claim to since going to the Middle East in 2001?

Well, sometimes things do not turn out a expected / desired. Still, many private contractors made a killing

[Ocklawaha]

Stephen, just have someone snap a picture of you when I finally drive you to plunge your head into the Veg-o-Matic!

actually (as you know) i love chatting with you Ock.  I love your sense of irony, and playful polemic. a lot of discussion doesn't really require any thought at all to respond to.  This can never be said about any discussion with you. It always requires keeping on your toes, and to date you are the only person on the forum that has handed me my ass in ignonimous defeat on a golden platter.

So, once bitten, twice respectful.

Sorry dude, I had to go to Publix and was caught in a stampede of rapid pigmy armadillos in tights! Thanks for the kudos! Y'all smile, life is too short to spend it frowning.

[finehoe]

Wage growth is as low now as it was since back in the 60s - which is another reason why you hear so much about the "wealth gap" Also, continuing to import millions of low skilled immigrants won't help that fact.

Wages have been stagnant since the turn of the Millennium, and even as far back as since the 1970s, especially where so much income and wealth has been funneled to the very topmost segment of society.  Also, the Obama Administration has deported more immigrants annually than the George W. Bush Administration.

But my question remains unaddressed.  How is it that we've heard for the last six years that the policies of the current administration are anti-capitalist, yet American capitalism is doing better than almost any place in the world?

[WarDamJagFan]

Wage growth is as low now as it was since back in the 60s - which is another reason why you hear so much about the "wealth gap" Also, continuing to import millions of low skilled immigrants won't help that fact.

Wages have been stagnant since the turn of the Millennium, and even as far back as since the 1970s, especially where so much income and wealth has been funneled to the very topmost segment of society.  Also, the Obama Administration has deported more immigrants annually than the George W. Bush Administration.

But my question remains unaddressed.  How is it that we've heard for the last six years that the policies of the current administration are anti-capitalist, yet American capitalism is doing better than almost any place in the world?

We aren't experiencing capitalism. A Federal Reserve running fiat monetary policy based on Keynesian principles to reach an arbitrary unemployment goal is not Capitalism. When 2 of your biggest industries - Banking and Insurance - are now even more quasi government/private enterprises due to Dodd-Frank and the ACA, that isn't capitalism. And as I mentioned earlier, we are seeing so many small to mid size companies in those industries go belly up or sell to bigger companies because of the cost of compliance. Margins are continuing to get squeezed and employers are being forced to make up the difference.

Another note, the real unemployment rate- the number that actually includes people who have given up looking for work - is at  @ 13% - lower than it was a few years ago, but still higher than 50 years prior to '10.

So to compare us against the world? The Eurozone is an absolute mess because of the amount of debt they've accrued and can't figure out how to make whole. Japan has been continuing its same track of government bond purchasing for the last few decades which continues to produce nothing. Argentina, Brazil, Australia, China.. not a ton of good news economically speaking out there. So I challenge the question as "our capitalism vs their capitalism" because there isn't any country actually practicing true capitalism.

Sure, we may seem to be in decent shape right now. And yes, things are better than they were in 2009 overall. But when you look at the massive increase in asset prices since QE1 began in 2009 to today - with not near enough raw growth to correlate - something will give eventually. The average bull market lasts just under 4 years. The Fed has been pumping for 5 years running to promote higher asset prices. Just as a sugar high seems awesome for a quick minute, the crash is quick and deep.

[finehoe]

So I challenge the question as "our capitalism vs their capitalism" because there isn't any country actually practicing true capitalism.

Who cares?  The goal isn't to have some kind of laissez-faire Austrian ideal, but to have a decent standard of living for as many people as possible.  And by that metric we're currently doing better than most anyone else, despite what the right-wing rhetoric would have you believe.

[WarDamJagFan]

WarDamJagFan, where on earth do you get these ideas about 'fiat currency'?

You know that that is all bunkum, right?

A fiat currency is a currency that does not have a commodity backing its value. The US Dollar does not have anything physical backing its value. That is not a debatable fact.

[WarDamJagFan]

So I challenge the question as "our capitalism vs their capitalism" because there isn't any country actually practicing true capitalism.

Who cares?  The goal isn't to have some kind of laissez-faire Austrian ideal, but to have a decent standard of living for as many people as possible.  And by that metric we're currently doing better than most anyone else, despite what the right-wing rhetoric would have you believe.

We've been doing better than anyone else for a very long time.

[finehoe]

We've been doing better than anyone else for a very long time.

And Republicans and the right-wing have been saying for the last six years that Obama's economic policies would destroy the economy, yet the economy has performed better than virtually anywhere else.  How can that be?

[WarDamJagFan]

WarDamJagFan, where on earth do you get these ideas about 'fiat currency'?

You know that that is all bunkum, right?

A fiat currency is a currency that does not have a commodity backing its value. The US Dollar does not have anything physical backing its value. That is not a debatable fact.

Actually it isn't a fact.  The United States currency is based on the total worth of the assets and value of the US economy and government.  That and petrodollars, which is the largest commodity on the face of the earth, transactable only in US Dollars.  Surprised you didn't know that.

But that isn't the only problem with this fairly ridiculous idea about fiat currency.  How is anything valued?

What, for example, is the value of gold based on?

And you do realize that there are a number of different currency notes in the us,  right?  The Federal Reserve note isn't the only legal currency.

Well you proved my point in your own words about the Dollar being a fiat currency. It is not tied to an asset value. The value of GDP is not at all considered to be a tangible asset. Petrodollars have nothing to do with this. When the Federal Reserve prints money, they don't print petrodollars. They inject actual dollars by purchasing debt issued by the Treasury. 

If the value of the dollar was actually backed by oil  as you stated, then you would expect similar correlations in price movements. The Dollar Index, since the beginning of the year, has gone up from 71 to 88 - a 24% increase in value. Meanwhile, Crude Oil has gone from $103/barrel to $78/barrell - a 24% decrease in value. So, there goes that argument.

And in regards to the value of gold now-a-days. Well it's heavily traded in the world of Futures - where I spent a few years. Hedge Funds and CTA's that trade Gold Futures, for the most part, have zero interest in actually taking delivery of Gold once the contracts expire. They close their positions before expiration date but the value of Gold in today's world is heavily dependent on the sentiment of futures traders.

There are no more major currencies tied to the gold standard. They are all fiat. Central Banks are at liberty to manipulate the values of their currencies because there is no asset backing it to hold the value accountable. Why do you think so many central banks around the globe are keeping rates as low as they are? Because shortly after their rates go up while everyone else's stay low, they will experience an economic contraction and will have to cut rates again. Schwab has an excellent review of who's done this in the recent past, and what their results were.
http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn/articles/What-Central-Banks-Have-Learned-About-Interest-Rate-Hikes

[WarDamJagFan]

Haha. Ok Rob. You've obviously done your homework.

[finehoe]

So four pages with deflections about global warming, fiat currency, and trips to Publix. Still no one has explained how not only did the implementation of socialism fail to happen, we ended up with the strongest economy in the developed world.

Curious.

[bill]

We've been doing better than anyone else for a very long time.

And Republicans and the right-wing have been saying for the last six years that Obama's economic policies would destroy the economy, yet the economy has performed better than virtually anywhere else.  How can that be?

Yes but only the rich are getting richer and the middle class is getting poor and the poor are in abject poverty. Isn't that what we read here on MJ.
But yes, kudos, I guess, President Obama is rocking the economy. All by himself, for the last six years. One more term!

It will be the R's fault soon enough. Barry just needs 40 more years and this may work. See Hungary/Russia/Cuba.

[finehoe]

So far this year, the United States has added some 2.65 million jobs — an average of about 241,000 a month. November marked the best single month for job growth since January 2012 and well exceeded the projection of economists surveyed by Bloomberg, who predicted that the economy had added about 223,000 jobs for the month. For 10 straight months now, the economy has added at least 200,000 jobs. That hasn't happened since 1994.

It's a record: The U.S. economy has never before delivered 50 straight months of payrolls growth. (Previous record: 48, ending in mid-1990.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/12/05/u-s-economy-added-321000-jobs-in-november-unemployment-rate-holds-at-5-8/

[bill]

So far this year, the United States has added some 2.65 million jobs — an average of about 241,000 a month. November marked the best single month for job growth since January 2012 and well exceeded the projection of economists surveyed by Bloomberg, who predicted that the economy had added about 223,000 jobs for the month. For 10 straight months now, the economy has added at least 200,000 jobs. That hasn't happened since 1994.

It's a record: The U.S. economy has never before delivered 50 straight months of payrolls growth. (Previous record: 48, ending in mid-1990.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/12/05/u-s-economy-added-321000-jobs-in-november-unemployment-rate-holds-at-5-8/

Yeah. Creating more food stamp recipients than jobs. Zero income growth and fewest people working since early 80's.