Our river.

[Know Growth]

Growth,

You said that 500k was spent on Mc Coy's Creek. And that was just because it was somehow related to the stadium and the Super Bowl? What did they spend the money on? Talking about how to clean up the creek? 500k just about buys the silly environmental studies that hold up real progress. Watch out for those "key indicator" "threatened species". Got any idea which ones "popped up"? I have no doubt that at one time Fishwier was very alive and vibrant. There are mullet there which do attract some birds. But if you paddle the creek you can see its choked with huge sediment islands.  Water run off pipes indicate where the original bank should be. In some places water run off pipes are over 40 feet from where the edge of the creek is today. It would be great to see a restored natural creek there again, but the fact is that nothing can be done to turn back the clock. I wonder what it would really cost to just bring in a dredge crew and clean this sewer out? I bet just a very small fraction of what it costs to host a horrible profecional football team would do the trick.

I am not suggesting that monies spent on McCoys,per identified Tributary Program,was necessarily efficacious.
If you researched a bit harder,you might even manage to challenge the entire premise of my post.

Dead Thread. As expected.

Will skip Herb Hiller Thriller here.

[cline]

Fishweir is in fact a 'top ten' Duval Tributary, a system that is composed within many square miles of the Westside- not simply a ditch flowing from US 17.The historical location of US 17 simply reflects the last  narrowing of the creek shores right there,as it quickly widened to the east.
Some sediment impacts hail from Lane Avenue/ Home Depot construction- the City Of Jacksonville back then quick to secure Affidavit from contractors assuring no soil lost from the site.This per Carter Bryan/Waterways.During that event, a neighbor was told "Lady if you don't quit complaining we are just going to fill the creek in"
Glad I wasn't living around here then!

An interesting exercise is to go on the USGS National Hydrography Map viewer online and you can see the extent to which these creeks meander through the area.  Like KG mentioned, Fishweir is not just flowing from US17- begins much deeper into the westside.  Looking at the map really gives insight into the watersheds in the area and the reasons why they are in the state they are today.

[bobsim]

  Funny thing about life in the south, one gets used to watching the world go by. I notice it most in outdoor recreation, and locally here in the Jacksonville area. I made a comment during a hike once that I see more Bald Eagles in the parks than children. That's pitiful but hey - folks around here don't get out. I'm a live and let live type of guy and if someone wants to spend their life at the mall or in front of the tube, that's cool. My worry is the children aren't getting the exposure they deserve and the resources need these kids, they have the job of protecting/preserving them in the future.

  I've come to accept my role in this generation as a failure. We suck! Not only are these children going to have shorter lives with less opportunities, but we're selling their natural birthright instead of protecting it for them. Not sure where we got off track but my hunch is too much marketing pressure. We've been trained well to want more and better which keeps us too busy to consider that we may have enough and enjoy our lives.

  Back to the river, on a more optimistic note there is a success story and even a blueprint for us in the waters of the Chesapeake Bay.    http://www.cbf.org/how-we-save-the-bay/chesapeake-clean-water-blueprint

  I spent many summers of my youth on and in the Chesapeake, some of the best memories I have. Over the years the conditions got so bad that I would bring crabs from here to Va when I went to visit family (sitting around and picking crabs is a tradition with us.) The water (bay) was in terrible shape with some of the same problems we have in ours. The restoration was more than some legislation and wishes though, there was an air of civic pride and personal involvement. That's going to be tough to do here.

  I have to comment about the mention of priorities earlier. It hits me like a stick when I drive over the Matthews and see the new mega million dollar tvs at the stadium with the river in the background. Maybe we should move the bridge?

[Know Growth]

2000 views so far- not too shabby

[sheclown]

Jacksonville Split Over Joining A Southern Port Dredging Frenzy
November 26, 2014 6:01 PM ET

fromWJCT
Peter Haden


Vince Cameron knows all the people buzzing around the Port of Jacksonville in their bright blaze vests. "My dad was a longshoreman for 44 years on these docks before he retired," he says. "I'm a child of this port."

In his hard hat and with a whistle around his neck, Cameron looks on as a weathered Horizon Lines freighter pulls in from Puerto Rico.

The ship is "a baby in the whole scheme of things," says Cameron, president of the local longshoreman's union. "It's a good ship ... but she's kinda slow and she uses diesel fuel. I mean, she drinks it like water."

Small ships like these are falling out of favor on some shipping routes. And when an expansion of the Panama Canal is finished, possibly next year, a new generation of colossal, superefficient container ships from Asia will be squeezing through, delivering goods directly to East Coast ports.

Those massive vessels, known as post-Panamax ships, require deeper harbors — and that has the ports of Jacksonville, Charleston, S.C., and Savannah, Ga., in a three-way competition to deepen their harbors.

But Jacksonville is split over whether to stay in the game. City officials are debating whether to go all in on a $700 million dredging project to accommodate the ships.

Down on the docks, the decision is clear.

"It's a do-or-die kinda thing for this port," Cameron says. "What'll happen is, you'll have ports that'll be in the Super Bowl of commerce, and ports that'll be niche ports.

"And once we have decided that we're not going to dig out the ditch, widen the channel, to accommodate the new vehicle which is gonna be bringing this cargo from Asia, then we're saying that we're not going to be part of the Super Bowl of commerce," he says.

If Jacksonville can't accommodate the big ships, Cameron fears they'll go to Savannah and Charleston. Millions of containers of Asian cargo and the jobs that go along with moving them could be at stake.

http://www.npr.org/2014/11/26/366615226/jacksonville-split-over-joining-a-southern-port-dredging-frenzy?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=news

[sheclown]

so, who's going?  Sounds like the perfect opportunity to speak on this topic.

I wanted to let you know about an important event that I hope you and your CPAC members can attend .

A town hall forum on the deepening of the St Johns River to be held Monday, March 9th at the Adam Herbert University Center at UNF from 6-9 pm. Free and open to the public.

The forum will be modeled after a genuine town hall meeting. The format will be an "open mike" for members of the public attending to express their views and/or ask questions of those in attendance who represent different perspectives on the project.  These representatives will not make formal presentations but will be available to respond to questions and concerns. We will have a moderator.

We intend to invite representatives from the Mayor's Port Task Force, the Jax Chamber, the Army Corps of Engineers, ILA, Jaxport and any other organizations/businesses that can contribute to an informed public on this important policy matter, along with representatives from the sponsoring organizations.

The town hall forum will be co-sponsored by The Department of Sociology, Anthropology and Social Work, UNF; The Ports Project, UNF; The Riverkeeper, and the Northeast Florida Center for Community Initiatives, UNF.

Please share this information with all that might be interested.

Thanks.

Best,
David Jaffee
Professor of Sociology
UNF
904-382-4885

[I-10east]

My impersonation of Noone, here it goes...

"Open the river!!!!

Visit Jacksonville!"

That's all that I have.

[Dog Walker]

Look on the Southside at Miller's Creek.  Almost prefect mirror of Fishweir except that the waterside residents have been trying for the last thirty years to get the creek dredged again.

The original dredging ## years ago, eliminated the little islands that channeled the spring water and rain runoff into narrow channels that were kept clear by the flow.  But!!  "There are alligators and trash on the little islands!  We have to make them go away!"

Mess with Mother Nature and you get a silted ditch.  I lived on Miller's Creek for over twenty years and we made at least two attempts to get it dredged back to the original configuration with no results.  There is a current effort and special taxing to try again.  Good luck, folks!

[sheclown]

Controversial port consultant terminated by the city
Feb 27, 2015, 7:53am EST Updated: Feb 27, 2015, 9:40am EST


A controversial port consultant who self-published a book with racially offensive views has been terminated by the city.

A Savannah-area consultant who self-published a book with racially offensive views has been terminated by the city effective immediately, according to a release from the mayor's office.

Herbert M. Barber Jr. and his company, Xicon Inc., entered into a contract with the Port Task Force on Dec. 30, 2014, to perform an analysis of the economic impact surrounding deepening the port. The contract called for Barber to be compensated $60,000 for consultant work.

Shortly after, Barber's book, "Fall of a Nation," available on retailers like Amazon, came to light. Passages from the book condemned racial mixing and called President Barack Obama more anti-American than terrorists. In the book, Barber was also critical of single moms, among other groups.
See Also

    Editorial: Racist port consultant is a huge distraction from dredging

Mayor Alvin Brown, in a statement to Folio Weekly, came against Barber's views.

"I strongly condemn the views expressed in the book. The author's commentary fails to reflect the values of our community and seriously undermines his credibility. We will be working with the Port Task Force members to ensure that these unfortunate comments do not cloud their important efforts," Brown said in the statement.

The city will be responsible for compensating Barber for the work he did perform – the amount the city will owe him is, however, unclear at this point.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/morning-edition/2015/02/controversial-port-consultant-terminated-by-the.html

[sheclown]

Ron Littlepage: Taxpayers are getting soaked - again

By Ron Littlepage Fri, Mar 13, 2015 @ 1:46 pm


A proposed deal with JEA to bail out the city for failing to do its part to clean up the St. Johns River has been described as a business transaction.

Not surprisingly it's one in which the city — thus, the taxpayers — is getting the short end.

This dates back to 2008 when the city and other polluters agreed to reduce the amount of nutrients they were sending into the river.

A goal was established for each, and a deadline for achieving at least half of the required reductions was set for July 31 of this year.

By making improvements to its wastewater treatment plants, JEA has exceeded its goal.

The city hasn't even come close.

With an unhappy Department of Environmental Protection demanding the city live up to its part of the bargain, the city has worked out a deal to buy credits from JEA.

In other words, the city would pay JEA to get credit for the additional nutrients JEA has removed from the river beyond what it was required to do.

This is a bad deal for a lot — a lot — of reasons.

And we can start with the business transaction.

The city would pay JEA $2.1 million a year for eight years, which would take us to when the city would have to make 100 percent of the required reductions.

But the city isn't really buying the credits. It's renting them. At the end of eight years, those credits would return to JEA, but the city would still be responsible for making the reductions that would have met the 50 percent threshold plus the reductions required for the next 50 percent.

This is a classic case of kicking the can down the road.

But it gets worse.

JEA wants the $2.1 million annual payments to help defray the cost of the improvements it has made.

But who has already paid for those improvements? JEA's ratepayers.

Who will pay for the city's purchase of the credits? The taxpayers.

It's pretty clear who is getting soaked twice in this deal. And it's not JEA, which, by the way, is owned by those taxpayers.

Other cities in the river's lower basin have purchased credits to meet their goals, but generally no money changed hands since the utilities were departments within the government.

Should Jacksonville taxpayers get the shaft simply because JEA is run by an independent authority?

One also has to question the city of Jacksonville's negotiating skills.

There are no other buyers for JEA's credits. Was the city bidding against itself to get to the $2.1 million annual payment?

Beyond this questionable business transaction, which is now before the City Council, there's a bigger problem.

Kudos to JEA for doing more than was required, but the city has failed to aggressively phase out septic tanks that are polluting the river and to do a better job of treating storm water runoff.

Those are both expensive to accomplish, but the St. Johns will never be as healthy as it should be until the city lives up to its responsibilities.

Another problem with this deal is the JEA improvements impact the main stem of the river.

Much of the work the city needs to do will impact the river's tributaries — work that's not getting done now.

And, by the way, who are the polluters who have gotten the city into this bind?

We all are.

ron.littlepage@jacksonville.com: (904) 359-4284

[strider]

It seems like there are many things the city can do that are not overly expensive and that will help the river.  One is simply to provide either free (like many cities do) or at lest very cheaply, a pump out service for boats.  A pump out boat to service the liveaboards that never leave the dock will eliminate a decent amount of sewage from the river.  And it is just not the liveaboards, but is it very inconvenient to get your boat's holding tank pumped out when there are too few pump out stations on the river. Making it convenient by having the pump out station go to them would help a lot. I know our boat usage is not as high as some other areas, but it does seem that if the city is struggling with meeting it's goals, every thing you can do will help. And it seems to me that a little bit of raw sewage does more harm than a larger amount of most other kinds of runoff.

Is it expensive to test and trace sewage in the runoff downtown?  I know that the level of effluents Downtown, Brooklyn/ Riverside is much higher than around the Trout River, as an example (Based on the growth rates on the bottom of the boats).  Seems like in Downtown it could be fairly easy to trace the buildings dumping raw sewage into the storm water drains rather then the actual sewage system.

I guess I am mostly wondering if this is a case of the city doing nothing at all rather than trying and falling short.

[sheclown]

[Know Growth]

so, COJ River Summit Number One....Herb Hiller is keynote speaker.

COJ River Summit Number Two......Herb Hiller in the audience-storms out of the room, in disgust. Delivers fiery message to WJCT,which aired only briefly.

Anyone know what was up with that? 

On another subject,Fishweir Creek:
I have come full circle,a Realization.
15 Years on the Creek,mounds of papers,files,studies.....

And all this time,amongst the pile of paperwork which seems as if a metaphor for "Sedimentation Layer".......a Paper Layer speaks volumes.The paper layer was deposited in 2007.

Historic Assessment and Remote Sensing Survey of the Big Fishweir Creek Section 206 Aquatic Ecosystem Restoration,Jacksonville,Duval County Florida                                August 2007

Right there, on the front cover: 1884 USCGS map. And within the report,1909 USCGS map, and a series of aerial photos depicting many decades of transformation.
In fact, Fishweir was, quite 'naturally', always shallow. The report notes the historical/'natural' shallow depths at the mouth of Fishweir Creek; two and a half feet.
The report clearly depicts historical condition and transformation. Earliest development occurred inland west of present day Herschel Street,the section east of Herschel and north of San Juan developed only later, due to prevalent marsh at the Northeasterly section. Present day Woodmere residents glare out on a mud bank that in fact represents historical natural condition,wetland and natural shoreline- their very home sites a result of wetland fill,bulk heading and dredging.
Certainly,and as proven by creek bottom Bore Sampling,the Creek has experienced spiked sedimentation inflow events in the past decades,and the shoal areas in front of the Loop may be shallower than the historical condition ( and it's composition has morphed towards hard sand since last named storm impact and 1980's era development sediment impacts move downstream) but the fact is the Creek always was plain 'shallow'.
Commander Apartment and particularly, the Commander parking lot sit on former bonafide wet lands,and in some sections,former open water. Same goes for the home site and current construction adjacent to the RAP District at the mouth of the Creek. The home site is just a wee bit out of the RAP boundary because the home site "point" was once bonafide wet land.

Joint Federal/COJ Creek Restoration preferred alternative has been dashed because during the past couple of years a series of new private docks have marched out in to the creek- these docks in fact traverse the very area that was conceived as marsh restoration/sediment dredge dump area.One might reasonably ask how such permitting for a slew of new docks would occur considering the ongoing Restoration Studies  - a combination of factors,further driven by 'streamlined' State permit process that lowered the involvement of the Federal USACOE review of certain permit applications. 
  So formal USACOE Marsh Restoration/Dredge Fill location Alternative was forced to bypass new dock area,( and don't even Think about looking towards the "Point"  ) ,and arrived at the concept of created "Island" at the mouth of the creek. Questionable on many fronts and all sorts of key pubic opposition. (Although no doubt the homeowners who have recently built those ugly long docks arching out to the creek really "Care" about the River)

During the COJ 2015 Budget meetings Councilman Love and his assistant were completely unaware of,nor involved with anything regards funding the city's portion of Creek Restoration. Not In The System.

Very Well! We will likely have to simply live with what we have done,including recent degradation to visual scenery, scale back,or redirect Creek ambitions. Ambitious "Restoration" concepts probably best shelved. Perhaps some dredging.(We were not supposed to refer to the word "Dredge", in lieu of "Restoration". Skip it- "DREDGE Baby DREDGE! A wee bit.Better yet make efforts to reduce sedimentation inflows,and in fact,curiously,long ago Sedimentation 'trap' was constructed within the creek body at Hamilton and Roosevelt.

Live with a shallow waterway.Great small craft,canoe,kayak and paddle board country!! Remove unsightly, never to be used again boat docks and lifts.

Consider installation of Trash Catch at Roosevelt Blvd.....$$$$.....that proposal would probably glaze eyes just as "Comprehensive Fishweir Creek Restoration" has for decades.

During St Johns Village rezone attempt proceedings Dr .Wayne Wood stated that the property's highest and best use would be public park.
Now imagine that.

A few more new docks,a few more McMansions,a few more dilapidated boat houses,toss in some new cell towers and no doubt a few other shifts to the human Creek experience and we can easily skip enhanced River Access and Engagement efforts,even during the era of "Care" and Florida Times Union endless Editorial column inch flow.
That was easy!

-Onward!

[Overstreet]

A lot of boats can operate in 2.5 ft.

[Know Growth]

A lot of boats can operate in 2.5 ft.

Better yet- .10