Obama is Renewing the American Sense of Identity. Unbelievable to Watch

[JeffreyS]

I don't have a major issue with Wright's rhetoric.   

As it relates to Obama or issue with someone preaching things like Bill Clinton was "riding dirty" on black people while he was in office?

[thelakelander]

I believe in the whole separation between church and state thing.  My only issue with Wright would be that I personally don't believe the pulpit is the right place to preach personal or political opinions. 

I felt the same way when a co-worker of mine passed out local election candidate information from his church about if the candidates agreed with abortion or stem cell research, when the positions they were running for were the water management district and a city council seat.

[vicupstate]

Lake's comments about not always agreeing with people that you are close to you, are a large part of why I don't hold Obama fully accountable for Wright's comments.  We also don't know if Wright's comments after 9/11 were typical of him or not.  We do know he fought for the country that he said he condemned that day.  Maybe he let his emotions get the better part of his judgement.  I do consider it racist that Wright thinks the federal government created AIDS as a more recent version of Tuskegee-like experiments.     

I do think Wright and Obama are closer on a personal level than Lake's comments might suggest.  I love my sister, but nearly all of her political views are very different than mine.  Our values are similiar, but my life experiences have been far different from hers.  I just let that sleeping dog lie.  I bet Obama and Wright do something similiar.   

As far as McCain's age, I think it should not be an issue in and of itself. 

As far as the MLK issue, his change of heart is due to either one of two things 1) his opinion on the issue evolved over time or 2) political expediancy.  If it is political expediancy, then Lake's concerns would be quite justified. 

However, I think it is fair to say that his views evolved over time.  I say that because his other political views have also evolved over time.  When he went to Congress in 1982, he was a run-of-the-mill, marching orders, conservative, Reaganite.  But as he got older, he became more open-minded, more moderate and much more independent.  That is a large part of why he appeals to me,  and why he actually still has a chance of winning.

Also, I think all of us, if we are being honest with ourselves, have evolved on the issue of race over the course of our lifetime.  If I give Obama the benefit of the doubt on Rev. Wright, I personally feel I should do the same for McCain on MLK Day. 

If further evidence proves to me that Obama fully subscribes to Wright's world-view or that McCain change of heart wasn't genuine, I would no doubt change my opinion of either one. 
       
The most regrettable thing IMO, is that this campaign (and the Wright controversy in particular), COULD be a means to have a truly meaningful discussion about race, and where we as a nation are in that regard. 

Instead of that, what we have gotten, and most likely will continue to get, is a game of political one upmanship that neither elightens us on the candidates, nor leads to greater understanding between the races.         

[thelakelander]

I agree with Vic's comments above.  However, I would like to see all of the candidates move forward with the actual issues facing our country.  One of the things I'm most interested in, is the candidate's plans for our urban areas.  To this date, it seems this has been completely overlooked.

[Johnny]

the republican plan for the future involves totally removing the burden from the wealthy and placing the future cost of all repairs and maintenance onto the middle class.

Pay attention to the past 8 years.   Consecutive tax cuts for the wealthy while deficit spending like crazy, and the raising of the tax burden on the middle class every time a choice had to be made.

If you are sick of being the only one paying taxes Downtown Dweller, then for God's sake dont vote Republican.

Wow... keep spinning buddy... we all pay less in taxes...

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

[Charleston native]

We don't know if Obama definitely agrees with whatever Wright said, but that's not the point. The point is that if Obama knowingly and willingly had Wright as a personal confidant and mentor, with what we know about Wright's political and religious beliefs, Obama's agenda becomes highly questionable. Hagee's endorsement of McCain is nothing...because McCain does not have the same relationship. Those Obama quotes in San Francisco are not lies...Obama himself tried to correct his gaffes in later interviews. The church that he is a member of subscribes to black liberation theology, which is a dangerous form of mixing perverted Christian doctrine and elements of communism. He has ties to a domestic terrorist organization, the Weather Underground, in his relations with Bill Ayers. His wife has black militant ties.

Good Lord, Stephen, how much have you been drinking (Kool-Aid, straight vodka, etc.)? I do think that you are rather intelligent, even though you subscribe to different views than I, but your blind devotion and sheer loyalty to Obama really has disappointed me. I thought that you as a thinking man would see right through the political rhetoric that this man utters in each and every speech.

[thelakelander]

We don't know if Obama definitely agrees with whatever Wright said, but that's not the point. The point is that if Obama knowingly and willingly had Wright as a personal confidant and mentor, with what we know about Wright's political and religious beliefs, Obama's agenda becomes highly questionable.

I haven't followed that particular church or Wright's past enough to declare I know what his religious views are.  However, is it possible for someone to have different political views from their preacher?  I would say so.  I'm someone who would fit that bill to a certain degree.

This is where the point of view perspective comes into play and it will range from person to person.  For example, I view my dad and many of my closest friends as personal confidants and mentors, but I certainly don't agree with them on everything.  But with me, the stuff Hannity continues to base his show around have never been real issues.  The war, economy and the improvement of our urban areas (especially in regards to mass transit and energy) are my major issues that they'll will be ultimately judged on.

[vicupstate]

I agree with Vic's comments above.  However, I would like to see all of the candidates move forward with the actual issues facing our country.  One of the things I'm most interested in, is the candidate's plans for our urban areas.  To this date, it seems this has been completely overlooked.

Agreed. That subject has been totally ignored.  There is tremendous room for improvement too.

Maybe if McCain and Obama both took a pledge to not answer questions about B.S., and only talk about substantive issues.     

No more flag lapel pins, flag burning amendments, guilt by association nonsense, political gimmick ideas like the gas tax repeal, woud all count as BS.   

[Charleston native]

Stephen, I can admit that the size of the crowds he generates are amazing. I can also admit that these crowds are amazingly foolish to practically worship Obama in zombie-like fashion. It's almost like a cult.

Lake, you have to follow the subtle hints that are sometimes revealed throughout Obama's speeches. His words may not be as blatant as Wright's, but the context of what he says casts a familiar tone. In addition, his voting record as state and U.S. senator gives more perspective into his frame of mind. In many cases, I ask myself if I can see Wright acting in similar fashion, and usually, the answer is yes.

Lately, Obama's responses to his criticisms are evocative of fascist essence. He and most his followers (Olbermann, Matthews) basically imply that anyone who criticizes him is a racist or bigot. They're saying that Obama is above criticism and does not deserve it. In essence, they are quelling free speech and dissent. It's really scary.

[Driven1]

yes Johnny...looking behind the spin (lies) of our good little buddy, we can find some facts...here they are...

as of 2005, the top 25% of wage earners pay a whopping 86% of income tax revenue that the IRS receives.  take note that the AGI of these wage earners is $60,000.  the facts show that the services provided for the "middle" and "lower middle class" that the democrats claim to pander so hard towards is largely supported on the backs of the upper middle and higher wage earners.  

further, it is astounding that those evil, greedy, capitalist "rich" people who earn $150,000 or more only make up 5% of the wage-earners in the U.S., YET PAY 60% OF THE TAX BURDEN IN THIS COUNTRY!!!

lastly, if memory serves me correctly, GWB was elected in 2000 and has been President since (thank God)....go to the link below to see how after an initial relieving of the tremendous tax burden on the "rich" (it would be a strong argument to say they deserved it), their burden has increased each tax year to now greatly surpass the burden BEFORE GWB went into office (that would be when a democrat was President).  verify this here...
http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

so, let's not talk about how those big, bad meany republicans are giving tax breaks to their wealthy friends.  it is those wealthy friends that are footing the bill for the growing socialistic welfare programs.

also, from FactCheck.org...

The top 1 percent of all households got 18 percent of all personal income and paid nearly 28 percent of all federal taxes in 2005, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The top 1 percent now pay a significantly larger share of taxes than before President Bush's tax cuts, and also have a larger share of income.

lastly, here is the latest 2007 data...
http://www.taxfoundation.org/press/show/22652.html

[thelakelander]

Lake, you have to follow the subtle hints that are sometimes revealed throughout Obama's speeches. His words may not be as blatant as Wright's, but the context of what he says casts a familiar tone. In addition, his voting record as state and U.S. senator gives more perspective into his frame of mind. In many cases, I ask myself if I can see Wright acting in similar fashion, and usually, the answer is yes.

Can you point out a few examples of the subtle hints in his speeches and voting his record?

[Driven1]

Lately, Obama's responses to his criticisms are evocative of fascist essence. He and most his followers (Olbermann, Matthews) basically imply that anyone who criticizes him is a racist or bigot. They're saying that Obama is above criticism and does not deserve it. In essence, they are quelling free speech and dissent. It's really scary.

amen brother. this is nothing new due to Obama being the candidate though.  this is basic left-wing class warfare that rears its ugly head every four years, regardless of who the candidate is from the democrats.  for fun, you can check the number of instances that stephendare uses the word "bigot" or "racist" in his posts on this site for the last 6 months compared to the prior 6 months.  you will see a big jump.  i predict the number of accusations of "bigot" and "racist" will only grow from here until November.  the democrats sure have a way of stirring up that left wing of theirs.  i'll give that to them.

[Driven1]

those evil, evil money makers.  i think i'm catching on to your idea here stephendare.  we should all rise up and overthrow the rich and take all their belongings so the middle class and lower class can have the things they never have and so everything is fair (example:  it is NOT FAIR that they own 95% of the wealth - as you purport with no fact source given - and yet only pay 68% of the taxes).  we'll show them...we'll make it fair.

it can be our little class struggle and we'll call it a Cultural Revolution.  workers unite and rise up!!!

[Driven1]

Thats because in personal observation as well as in the record of your posts on this board you are clearly a racist and bigoted person, an impression whose validity you have proven time and again.

Certainly in your repeated remarks about gay people and your insinuations that they cannot be christians or go to heaven.

And why is is that the only time you talk about racial issues or about african americans that it is usually in the context of 'those stupid reverse racist negroes!"

If I had a nickel for every time that you have referenced the general "Negroes who are really racist" theme on these boards, we could probably do away with the income tax.

To be honest, while its a free country, I find you kind of sickening and I hope that you spend all of your time in hell processing the welfare checks of single white women in an all gay office.

stephendare...how could you forget the muslims???  remember...i hate the "towel-heads" too!!



seriously though.  as it relates to discourse in a public forum, i live by something i call the "factor clause".  what it is - is i take the accepted credibility of someone i am debating with (on a scale of 0 to 10, with 10 being the highest) and multiply that by the degree of veracity of the statement they make (0 being completely false and 10 being completely true).  

here, since it is you posting (you score a 0 in publicly accepted credibility - see "Truth or Dare" article from Folio Weekly) and you score another big fat ZERO in the truth of the words you just posted.

if i find a "factor clause" of 5 or higher, i probably will reply.  but in this case, i multiply 0 x 0.  zero multiplied by any number (including itself) is still zero.  

therefore, i feel absolutely no compulsion at all to have to defend myself.  there really is no need to.

[Driven1]

oh....someone is upset.  did i get the best of you lil guy?