Millennials Love Transit Most, Boomers Still Stuck on Cars

[Tacachale]

This gets really old, y'all.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Its going to be interesting to be you in 10 years.

I'm confused.... (not really unusual)

So in 10 years, stephendare is going to be I-10east ? ?

[peestandingup]

It wasn't just transit that the Boomers helped destroy, as I'm sure you guys are aware. And just because a few here who are in that gen have their heads on straight doesn't mean the vast majority of your gen does (or did).

The total love affair with automobiles was under your watch, so was the complete abandoning of any & all urban areas, ushering in big box super centers (screw you, mom & pop), letting highways rip apart established urban fabric that actually had character & a history, etc. All of these things had tremendous negative consequences that we're just now starting to recover from. Boomers left & couldn't have cared less if you blew up these areas. Now they're bitching about all the money it takes to clean up the mess & trying to make up for the lost decades. Well, that'll happen won't it. Leave a cancerous mole on your body & then tell me how much more it costs to take care of it later on down the road.

You didn't have a choice? You actually did, but no one exercised it & was likely razzle dazzled by a lot of bullshit talk from all sides of the isle. A car doesn't define you (like they told you), a house in the burbs isn't a status symbol, wal-mart isn't your neighborhood buddy, huge lawns are stupid & wasteful, etc.

Like I said, most Boomers (not you guys) still hold onto these notions with an iron grip because acknowledging it would mean admitting they were wrong. And god forbid that happen. Hell, you can't go on a forum or city news site even today & read an article about transit, or bike lanes, or any other urban projects without hearing them still squawking about how we should just let it go, too much money, its a lost cause, etc.

This is total bullshit.  It was the "greatest generation" who embraced the automobile and fled the cities for suburbia after WWII.  The first boomers didn't turn 18 until 1964, and by then the decline of transit and the inner cities was already well on its way.

Yeah, and?? Post WWII adults may have started it, but its not like it happened all of a sudden. It didn't really start to ramp into high gear (then turn dire straights) until the 70s & 80s (peaking in the 90s) with all the above mentioned. Transport back in time & go to basically any urban area during those decades & watch them rot away. Hell, even NYC was a shithole then. Now imagine what it was like in normal urban areas across the country that weren't NYC. Gonna blame that one on their parents too? They were either retired by then, dying or already dead.

Let me ask you this. Did the Boomers do anything whatsoever during their reign to stop it or reverse these oncoming trends? Aside from a few instances in a handful of major cities (Lake mentioned a few)?? If the greatest gen started the courting, the Boomers crawled in bed with it, knocked it up & put a ring on it.

Screaming "well, they did it first, so meah!" doesn't exactly make for a good case. That's like saying my folks dabbled in marijuana, so that meant I had to be a full on crackhead. If the Boomers had any foresight, sense of community or caring whatsoever what the future might hold, then we wouldn't be nearly as in so deep with this stuff as we are now & sticking the newer adults with having to clean up the mess (and they are). Biggest "me first" generation the country's ever seen.

Again, I'm not talking directly to anyone on the forum so please don't take offense.

Absolutely wrong, do the math. Boomers were the result of a sudden post WWII influx of love starved adult males into the population. For the history challenged, the war ended in 1945, many were not back until 48' or later. So junior is born in 1948-49. He/She is 20 years old in 68/69 and responsible for the biggest social revolution/upheaval arguably in the history of man. The boomers invented the ecology movement, dabbled with electric cars, back to the earth movement, health foods, and using transit or car pooling (aka: 'hitching'). By the time 'we' (and I am one) had a BA, it was 1972/73, count 10 years for some serious seniority in society and you hit 82/83 and real change was on the boards. Add the 5-10 years required for these projects to get from drawing boards to streets and you are at 92/93. Our 'reign' is just now coming to an end... how do you like your infrastructure compared to 1968? YOUR WELCOME! No offense taken, but simply do the math, even the earliest of us Boomers effected massive change.

[simms3]

As a 35 year old with younger siblings (and with a younger wife with still younger siblings), I think this has a lot to do with the 30 and under set delaying "growing up" as long as they can. My wife's siblings, ranging from 20 to 27, still live with their parents. Heck, of my peer group, I and one other friend are the only ones to have bought a home. But I think as these 30-and-unders age, they are going to make some of the same decisions our parents did. Public transit is great until you have kids (which I don't, but my other homeowner friend does). Urban living isn't as appealing as a big lawn and lots of big rooms for kids to play in.

That and frankly, in the vast majority of the country, jobs don't pay what they used to - and decent jobs are difficult to get without going into debt over student loans. Who wants a car payment, car insurance, and vehicle maintenance on top of student loan payments?

Hmmm, this is an interesting statement.  Not sure it's applicable to every city in America, though.  It's pretty common for people to marry older in certain cities.  This has more to do with work life, different sets of goals and ambitions, and life carry costs than with a decision to not "grow up".

Life is just different now.  Attaining a superior education, or any education, is extremely expensive (2 of my grandparents went to Penn and my other grandfather went to Chicago when those schools cost less in today's dollars than in-state public college tuition).  Like you said, finding a decent job is challenging and only considerably more possible in a select few really expensive, really crowded cities, and saving up to actually get married and have kids and live comfortably within means is a longer proposition, especially for those who did receive an expensive education they are trying to pay off in an expensive city, than it used to be.

None of that has anything to do with "growing up" and I wouldn't translate your siblings who are still at home with the parents as necessarily the "norm", though I certainly have heard of it more and more (either in really expensive cities like NYC and SF where it kind of makes sense or in cities like Jax where young kids are not really receiving superior educations and where they aren't finding superior jobs).

Transit is used by families all over the world.  Not bringing up the "great" American cities like NYC/Boston/Chicago/SF, even in Atlanta I would hop on MARTA and share a car with a bunch of private school kids coming home from College Park (Woodward Academy), and of course lots of public school kids, too.  Families going to Braves games, etc.  If transit is effective, safe, and convenient, it will be used and appreciated by all types of people.  It's not relegated to the poor or those "kids who are delaying growing up".

[Tacachale]

It wasn't just transit that the Boomers helped destroy, as I'm sure you guys are aware. And just because a few here who are in that gen have their heads on straight doesn't mean the vast majority of your gen does (or did).

The total love affair with automobiles was under your watch, so was the complete abandoning of any & all urban areas, ushering in big box super centers (screw you, mom & pop), letting highways rip apart established urban fabric that actually had character & a history, etc. All of these things had tremendous negative consequences that we're just now starting to recover from. Boomers left & couldn't have cared less if you blew up these areas. Now they're bitching about all the money it takes to clean up the mess & trying to make up for the lost decades. Well, that'll happen won't it. Leave a cancerous mole on your body & then tell me how much more it costs to take care of it later on down the road.

You didn't have a choice? You actually did, but no one exercised it & was likely razzle dazzled by a lot of bullshit talk from all sides of the isle. A car doesn't define you (like they told you), a house in the burbs isn't a status symbol, wal-mart isn't your neighborhood buddy, huge lawns are stupid & wasteful, etc.

Like I said, most Boomers (not you guys) still hold onto these notions with an iron grip because acknowledging it would mean admitting they were wrong. And god forbid that happen. Hell, you can't go on a forum or city news site even today & read an article about transit, or bike lanes, or any other urban projects without hearing them still squawking about how we should just let it go, too much money, its a lost cause, etc.

This is total bullshit.  It was the "greatest generation" who embraced the automobile and fled the cities for suburbia after WWII.  The first boomers didn't turn 18 until 1964, and by then the decline of transit and the inner cities was already well on its way.

Yeah, and?? Post WWII adults may have started it, but its not like it happened all of a sudden. It didn't really start to ramp into high gear (then turn dire straights) until the 70s & 80s (peaking in the 90s) with all the above mentioned. Transport back in time & go to basically any urban area during those decades & watch them rot away. Hell, even NYC was a shithole then. Now imagine what it was like in normal urban areas across the country that weren't NYC. Gonna blame that one on their parents too? They were either retired by then, dying or already dead.

Let me ask you this. Did the Boomers do anything whatsoever during their reign to stop it or reverse these oncoming trends? Aside from a few instances in a handful of major cities (Lake mentioned a few)?? If the greatest gen started the courting, the Boomers crawled in bed with it, knocked it up & put a ring on it.

Screaming "well, they did it first, so meah!" doesn't exactly make for a good case. That's like saying my folks dabbled in marijuana, so that meant I had to be a full on crackhead. If the Boomers had any foresight, sense of community or caring whatsoever what the future might hold, then we wouldn't be nearly as in so deep with this stuff as we are now & sticking the newer adults with having to clean up the mess (and they are). Biggest "me first" generation the country's ever seen.

Again, I'm not talking directly to anyone on the forum so please don't take offense.

The car started becoming widespread with the Model T in 1908. Streetcars started getting phased out by buses in the 1920s and '30s. Mass suburbanization started after World War II. The Interstate Highway System came into being in 1956. All of those things happened before Boomers were of age, and some started generations before. I'm not sure how the Boomers would be any worse than earlier or later generations, except that there were more of them.

[finehoe]

I'm not offended, nor am I screaming, but your time line is all off.  Boomers didn't get in positions they could influence land use patterns until the late-70s at the earliest, and most of them not until the eighties.  Urban and transit decline started in the 50s, excelerated in the 60s and probably hit bottom in the 70s.  It was after the oil shocks of the 70s that people began to look once again at central city living.  This trend really took off begining in the 90s--when millenials would have been too young to have much of an effect.

Furthermore, research by analysts Morley Winograd and Mike Hais, authors of the ground-breaking "Millennial Makeover," indicates that millennials are even more suburban-centric than their boomer parents. Urban areas do exercise great allure to well-educated younger people, particularly in their 20s and early 30s. But what about when they marry and have families, as four in five intend? A recent survey of millennials by Frank Magid and Associates, a major survey research firm, found that although roughly 18% consider the city "an ideal place to live," some 43% envision the suburbs as their preferred long-term destination.

Clearly its not so much generational as it is subsets of all generations who gravitate to urban living while the majority of their peers still prefer the 'burbs.

[Tacachale]

Then there's this from the transit center, which found that while suburbs are the preference, mixed-use suburbs - specifically including historic inner-ring suburbs many people would consider "urban" - are the most preferred. This goes across age groups, including (gasp) boomers.

http://transitcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/WhosOnBoard2014-ForWeb.pdf

[finehoe]

Then there's this from the transit center, which found that while suburbs are the preference, mixed-use suburbs - specifically including historic inner-ring suburbs many people would consider "urban" - are the most preferred. This goes across age groups, including (gasp) boomers.

http://transitcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/WhosOnBoard2014-ForWeb.pdf

It's true.  Rather than city vs. suburb, the real discussion should be about the type of built environment people prefer. More and more, that seems to be walkable, transit-oriented places.

[DDC]

Maybe people under 30 can't afford cars.   

Just today I heard a blurb on NPR that made this same argument. It may have been more centered on Student Loans, but the concept is the same.

For me, If I could find a job in the urban core to support me that I could get to by public transit or bike, I would park my truck and use it for the few times I have to leave Springfield.

And I am a boomer.

[peestandingup]

I'm not offended, nor am I screaming, but your time line is all off.  Boomers didn't get in positions they could influence land use patterns until the late-70s at the earliest, and most of them not until the eighties.  Urban and transit decline started in the 50s, excelerated in the 60s and probably hit bottom in the 70s.  It was after the oil shocks of the 70s that people began to look once again at central city living.  This trend really took off begining in the 90s--when millenials would have been too young to have much of an effect.

How do you figure that? The Boomer gen is defined as roughly being born between 1946-1964. So even in 1970, the beginning of them were WELL into their adulthood.

And I realize their parents didn't do them any favors by laying the groundwork for this trend, but like I said, it didn't really take off full force until the 70s & 80s (when Boomers had the ball, had families, got married, bought houses, kids, etc). Nothing was stopping that generation from realizing the problem, going in/living in/revitalizing these areas like younger gens are doing now, but they didn't & instead ran the other way. People quoting the production years of the Model T & the decline of the streetcars doesn't change that fact.

And while its true the turnaround started in the 90s & millennials were still too young to do anything, you're conveniently forgetting our Gen X friends. Who in my opinion (both as being a late one & just growing up in that era) have much more in common with millennials regarding these things than they do with Boomers.

[finehoe]

Nothing was stopping that generation from realizing the problem, going in/living in/revitalizing these areas like younger gens are doing now, but they didn't & instead ran the other way.

Here in Jacksonville, Riverside Avondale Preservation was formed in 1974.  Springfield Preservation and Revitalization was founded the same year.  Similar organizations were forming all over the country at the time, and it wasn't Gen-Xers and Millenials doing it.

[peestandingup]

Nothing was stopping that generation from realizing the problem, going in/living in/revitalizing these areas like younger gens are doing now, but they didn't & instead ran the other way.

Here in Jacksonville, Riverside Avondale Preservation was formed in 1974.  Springfield Preservation and Revitalization was founded the same year.  Similar organizations were forming all over the country at the time, and it wasn't Gen-Xers and Millenials doing it.

And that should be commended. But yet, most of these places didn't start turning around until a decade ago (some were worse than others, Riverside for example). What happened from 1974 until then? My guess is the overall generational mindset started to swing back that way within the last decade until critical mass was reached, and those people who made that up were mostly Xers & Yers. Isn't that a fair assessment?

I mean, as much good work as they do, it takes more than a few preservation societies to truly bring a neighborhood back to life. People, lots of people, have to also be interested in that type of lifestyle & actually live there. This has pretty much been the story for most US urban areas within the last decade.

[Ocklawaha]

Its going to be interesting to be you in 10 years.

I'm confused.... (not really unusual)

So in 10 years, stephendare is going to be I-10east ? ?

But for the grace of god.

There comes a point where suicide is a viable option.

[Ocklawaha]

It wasn't just transit that the Boomers helped destroy, as I'm sure you guys are aware. And just because a few here who are in that gen have their heads on straight doesn't mean the vast majority of your gen does (or did).

The total love affair with automobiles was under your watch, so was the complete abandoning of any & all urban areas, ushering in big box super centers (screw you, mom & pop), letting highways rip apart established urban fabric that actually had character & a history, etc. All of these things had tremendous negative consequences that we're just now starting to recover from. Boomers left & couldn't have cared less if you blew up these areas. Now they're bitching about all the money it takes to clean up the mess & trying to make up for the lost decades. Well, that'll happen won't it. Leave a cancerous mole on your body & then tell me how much more it costs to take care of it later on down the road.

You didn't have a choice? You actually did, but no one exercised it & was likely razzle dazzled by a lot of bullshit talk from all sides of the isle. A car doesn't define you (like they told you), a house in the burbs isn't a status symbol, wal-mart isn't your neighborhood buddy, huge lawns are stupid & wasteful, etc.

Like I said, most Boomers (not you guys) still hold onto these notions with an iron grip because acknowledging it would mean admitting they were wrong. And god forbid that happen. Hell, you can't go on a forum or city news site even today & read an article about transit, or bike lanes, or any other urban projects without hearing them still squawking about how we should just let it go, too much money, its a lost cause, etc.

This is total bullshit.  It was the "greatest generation" who embraced the automobile and fled the cities for suburbia after WWII.  The first boomers didn't turn 18 until 1964, and by then the decline of transit and the inner cities was already well on its way.

Yeah, and?? Post WWII adults may have started it, but its not like it happened all of a sudden. It didn't really start to ramp into high gear (then turn dire straights) until the 70s & 80s (peaking in the 90s) with all the above mentioned. Transport back in time & go to basically any urban area during those decades & watch them rot away. Hell, even NYC was a shithole then. Now imagine what it was like in normal urban areas across the country that weren't NYC. Gonna blame that one on their parents too? They were either retired by then, dying or already dead.

Let me ask you this. Did the Boomers do anything whatsoever during their reign to stop it or reverse these oncoming trends? Aside from a few instances in a handful of major cities (Lake mentioned a few)?? If the greatest gen started the courting, the Boomers crawled in bed with it, knocked it up & put a ring on it.

Screaming "well, they did it first, so meah!" doesn't exactly make for a good case. That's like saying my folks dabbled in marijuana, so that meant I had to be a full on crackhead. If the Boomers had any foresight, sense of community or caring whatsoever what the future might hold, then we wouldn't be nearly as in so deep with this stuff as we are now & sticking the newer adults with having to clean up the mess (and they are). Biggest "me first" generation the country's ever seen.

Again, I'm not talking directly to anyone on the forum so please don't take offense.

Absolutely wrong, do the math. Boomers were the result of a sudden post WWII influx of love starved adult males into the population. For the history challenged, the war ended in 1945, many were not back until 48' or later. So junior is born in 1948-49. He/She is 20 years old in 68/69 and responsible for the biggest social revolution/upheaval arguably in the history of man. The boomers invented the ecology movement, dabbled with electric cars, back to the earth movement, health foods, and using transit or car pooling (aka: 'hitching'). By the time 'we' (and I am one) had a BA, it was 1972/73, count 10 years for some serious seniority in society and you hit 82/83 and real change was on the boards. Add the 5-10 years required for these projects to get from drawing boards to streets and you are at 92/93. Our 'reign' is just now coming to an end... how do you like your infrastructure compared to 1968? YOUR WELCOME! No offense taken, but simply do the math, even the earliest of us Boomers effected massive change.

[tufsu1]

And that should be commended. But yet, most of these places didn't start turning around until a decade ago (some were worse than others, Riverside for example). What happened from 1974 until then?

You would actually find that many of these places started turning around in the 1970s...but it took 10-20 years before tangible results could be seen by the public in general.  Just like the trend toward suburbanization started in the 1930s but wasn't really noticed until the 1950s.