Baltimore's Inner Harbor vs. Jacksonville's Riverfront

[Metro Jacksonville]

Baltimore's Inner Harbor vs. Jacksonville's Riverfront



Metro Jacksonville's Ennis Davis explains why Baltimore has found success with the revitalization of their Inner Harbor and discusses the simple challenge Jacksonville's leaders must overcome if they want a similar result along the St. Johns River.

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-aug-baltimores-inner-harbor-vs-jacksonvilles-riverfront

[finehoe]

Nothing about the new Baltimore casino?



http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-horseshoe-casino-opens-20140826,0,47252.story

[thelakelander]

Hmm. Another punch in the gut for Atlantic City.

[Wacca Pilatka]

I remember in the early-to-mid 80s when the McCormick spice factory was still there as another vestige of the industrial past.

The Power Plant is a success now, but the initial attempt to revitalize it was the Inner Harbor's highest-profile failure.  In 1985 or so, it was the site of an indoor Six Flags amusement park that lasted about four years.  It was then a huge, short-lived nightclub vaguely themed after the mascot of the amusement park, then sat dormant for a few more years before it became home to ESPN Zone, Barnes & Noble, et al.

[thelakelander]

^Good point. The lesson I take from the power plant is that they eventually found a viable use that complemented the surrounding atmosphere. What they didn't do is immediately implode the structure, which is architecturally unique to Baltimore.

[coredumped]

Well now I'm depressed, thanks a lot MJ

Jax has a bit harder of a challenge. Things like ripley's wouldn't do well downtown with st Augustine being so close.

With that, I still think we could do much better, capitalize on our history more. Getting a larger convention center brings nothing but people and foot traffic downtown, I think that has to be our #1 priority.

[thelakelander]

Ripley's came +30 years after good incremental, coordinated planning. Jax has not had 5 straight years of sticking to a plan. Nevertheless, I would not get too concerned about specific uses. The market will handle that. Instead, whatever we do should be clustered together with adjacent properties, with a priority on providing an enhanced human scaled experience.

[InnerCityPressure]

I wanted to add something to this conversation, but all I can think about is crab cakes...

[Noone]

Very positive.

[Noone]

I wanted to add something to this conversation, but all I can think about is crab cakes...

+1

[Bridges]

Look at all that river interaction.  Everything opens to the river with an entrance.  It hugs the water way and encourages the public to walk along it.  We're talking about reopening coastline drive to cut anything at the "new" landing off from the River.  Sometimes I think we're ashamed of the St. John's.  We'd rather just use the river as a byline on private real-estate, "waterfront", but really "waterfront with nothing to do on the water".  A benefit in name and status only. 

[thelakelander]

I wanted to add something to this conversation, but all I can think about is crab cakes...

If you want me to be honest, I didn't make a pit stop in Baltimore for the Inner Harbor last month.  I stopped specifically for lump crab cakes.

[JimInJax]

Having grown up near Baltimore (about an hour away), there were draws to Inner Harbor. The Aquarium and The Science Center. Both are nationally recognized. Jax has nothing downtown to compare. Add to that the restaurants and nightlife, you have the whole package.

Had Latitude 30 gone in downtown (with adequate parking), I think it would have done well and brought people back downtown.

Why is it planners don't get it? I don't like going downtown because the parking sucks and because there is rarely enough quality stuff going on to make me want to put up with the parking PITA. None of the restaurants there are "destination" places (except maybe Fionn McCools). Harborplace has Philips Crab house, a Hard Rock, Cheesecake Factory, Capitol Grill, Brio, Morton's Steakhouse, and more. We have Hooters. All the other upscale places went to the Town Center. If Jax would have played it right, and offered the right incentives, they could have had them downtown.

Add to that the bums, and no I really don't want to go downtown. 

[thelakelander]

As mentioned in the article, the #1 Science Center (1976) and #5 Aquarium (1981) opened up within five years of each other and pretty close to one another.  In between their openings (and their physical locations) were the openings of the #2 World Trade Center (1977), #3 convention center (1979), and #4 Harborplace (1980).




this map of the Jacksonville riverfront shows where these five complementing attractions would be located if built at a similar distance between one another in Jacksonville. Most of Baltimore's major Inner Harbor developments would be crammed between the Acosta Bridge and Hyatt Hotel.  If we clustered what we invested in 20-30 years ago like Baltimore did, we wouldn't be struggling today.




As the article also states, we actually invested in similar projects during the 1970s and 80s. #1 MOSH (1969), #2  One Independent Square (1974), #3 Prime Osborn Convention Center (1985), and the #4 The Landing (1987). We didn't build an aquarium but the Inner Harbor doesn't have a #5 performing arts center either, so throw these uses on the map and it looks like someone kicked an ant hill.




Now, superimpose the location of Jax's investments over the Inner Harbor aerial and you'll see why one environment has synergy between the uses and the other doesn't.



full article: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-aug-baltimores-inner-harbor-vs-jacksonvilles-riverfront#.U_5ITfldViY


DT Jax isn't going to change overnight but if we want the place to be vibrant like the Inner Harbor, we're going to have to concentrate enhancing a compact area as opposed to continuing to invest in a sprawling autocentric type of way.  This is one of the reasons it bugs me when we believe we can just shift activities that should be highly concentrated and centralized to the sites like the Shipyards and JEA Southbank land.  All I see is tons of money spent and another generation 20 years down the road, wondering why we've refused to do what has worked in nearly every other city since the creation of mankind.

[exnewsman]

Jacksonville has some room to play with to create a similarly successful destination point. The Shipyards, Metro Park, Old Courthouse/City Hall space, JEA on Southbank are all available to build and create a unified entertainment, residential and commercial district.

If you fills in those holes with items similar to what the Inner Harbor has - and add it to what we already have >>> the Hyatt and Crown Plaza hotels on the river, Friendship Fountain, marina, MOSH, Peninsula and the Strand, more.

Then don't you have a reason for people to come or stay Downtown?