Anti-Food Truck Legislation Moving Forward?

[JayBird]

We want to be a metropolitan city but it just wont happen...can someone just look at real metropolitan and take some lessons from those who do it well?

Actually, Jax isn't alone on food truck hatred. Being that I eat a lot of takeout and food truck food I can say that NYC has the same issues. Many times a food truck will tweet their lunch location at 11am only to tweet again a new location because the NYPD made them move, which sometimes forces them to abandon area completely. I think the only places that have love for food trucks through legislation is the west coast.

I am surprised however that food truck operators helped on this because those distances seem to apply to everywhere downtown, kind of like a "if we don't want them here, this will allow us to move them" rule.

[thelakelander]

^Yeah, I'm sure if this were mapped, the exclusionary zones would dominate the illustration.

[whislert]

I don't know much about this issue but I think Lakelander probably is correct about the exclusions. My observation of the JAX form of "limited government" is to make most everything illegal and then selectively enforce for political and personal advantage. And one can't argue with Strider's zoning analysis. As written, only one zone seems to permit the trucks and every other requires variance even though superficially (ahem, yes I was guilty of that) it appears to say exactly the opposite. Good catch Strider!

[Noone]

I don't know much about this issue but I think Lakelander probably is correct about the exclusions. My observation of the JAX form of "limited government" is to make most everything illegal and then selectively enforce for political and personal advantage. And one can't argue with Strider's zoning analysis. As written, only one zone seems to permit the trucks and every other requires variance even though superficially (ahem, yes I was guilty of that) it appears to say exactly the opposite. Good catch Strider!

+1

[Noone]

^Yeah, I'm sure if this were mapped, the exclusionary zones would dominate the illustration.

Speaking of maps. At the 8/13/14 Jacksonville Waterways Commission it was announced and being distributed to all Waterway Commission members  our new Downtown Waterfront zone maps. Who will be the first news organization to show the maps? It will detail who is in and out. Just ask the Balt. Guys or Vince Seibold.

[strider]

As I said, the way this ordinance is currently written unless the lot you want to be on happens to be in a Commercial Neighborhood zoning, you will have to apply for a zoning exception and fill out this application:

http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/docs/applications/application-for-zoning-exception-140701.aspx

Then pay the$ 1,009.00 fee, all advertising costs and $ 7.00 per addressee for the required notifications.

As this was written by Cherry Shaw, I suppose it could be just badly written and a mistake and that the intended purpose was to eliminate food trucks from the CN zoning for some unknown reason.  However, Ms Shaw also wrote the Blight ordinance, the one everyone kept saying did not effect historic structures even when they purposefully changed language to make sure it did.  In this case, it appears they are trying to all but eliminate Food trucks all over Jacksonville, giving a nod to a few Downtown and making sure it is as expensive and difficult as possible.

Those who have food trucks who gave their input and support to this ordinance, is this what you thought you were getting?

These deceptions are done by Council to make it appear that the public is being listened to all the while they are really bowing down to the special interest du jour. It shows us how little respect our elected officials have for the very people they are charged with serving.

[mbwright]

I think it should be mapped out as to where the possible locations would be as a result of this, and if there is more than one food truck in downtown, where can a second, or third, or etc be located.  If there is an event, or food truck day, why can't they be closer together.

[sheclown]

Strider. Also the food truck has to hope that the  exception will be granted.  That's the kicker

[Charles Hunter]

Would a food truck have to get a zoning exception for each location each time they want to set up someplace?  Talk about onerous.  With notices and signs and hearings.  sheesh, glad this ordinance is to "help" the food trucks.

[strider]

Would a food truck have to get a zoning exception for each location each time they want to set up someplace?  Talk about onerous.  With notices and signs and hearings.  sheesh, glad this ordinance is to "help" the food trucks.

This is the wording from the ordinance.

b)   Vending areas. Emphasis mine.

Mobile Food Dispensing vendors may vend food or nonalcoholic beverages from a mobile food dispensing vehicle in all zoning districts except the Commercial Neighborhood (CN) zoning district subject to the issuance of a zoning exception pursuant to the Zoning Code.

So, the only zoning a food truck can be without an exception (other than downtown) is the Commercial Neighborhood zoning.   To be in say CRO or CCG, you would have to be granted a zoning exception.  Pay your money and hope for the best.

What bothers me is that someone from the Truckies told Sheclown that they had been at all the meetings and this is the best they can hope for.  I fear the Truckies do not understand what this ordinance actually does to them.

Section 250.1203. Requirements to operate and locate Mobile Food Dispensing Vehicles in Downtown Jacksonville.

(a)Downtown Jacksonville is defined as that area designated within the boundaries of the Community Redevelopment Area (CRA) as depicted on the map in Figure 1 attached and incorporated herein also including all Downtown Overlay districts.

(b)Zoning categories referenced in Chapter 656 of the Zoning Code are not applicable to Downtown Jacksonville.

This section excludes Downtown from the zoning requirements above.  To me, this ordinance only makes it lawful to operate a food truck in CN zoning or in the area defined as the CRA - which appears to be basically the Downtown Overlay.  Urban communities like Springfield will be under the zoning exception requirements.  No food trucks for events like the Cruise.  Unless someone wants to pay the money to try to get a zoning exception.  Then, as indicated earlier, the community can block the granting of that exception.

It makes little difference to me if this passes or not.  I just would prefer if the city was a bit more up front about things. And would like to know the people effected know what is actually being done.

[sheclown]

Furthermore, the zoning exceptions would have be done by the owner of the property, not the food truck.  It is the lot which is zoned not the mobile device on it.

[TheCat]

hmmm, I wonder what would happen if food trucks started selling dairy products just to register their business as an "ice cream truck".

I wonder if they could make a case that any food truck legislation that passes doesn't really apply to them because technically they are an ice cream truck and are subject to the same rules  as any other street vender, especially downtown.

Probably not, the proposed definition for "mobile food dispensing vendor" is pretty broad but it does define a food truck as an entity that serves food for human consumption...that allows for some fun loop hole jumping if it becomes necessary.

If I remember correctly unpasteurized goat milk is often sold as "for animal consumption only" but it's winky face product. People drink it.

This is a link to the rules on being an ice cream truck:

https://library.municode.com/HTML/12174/level3/TITVIBUTROC_CH250MIBURE_PT11ICCRTRRE.html#TITVIBUTROC_CH250MIBURE_PT11ICCRTRRE_S250.1103ICCRTROPPE

This is a link to selling milk legally "for dummies":

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/selling-goat-milk-legally.html

[jaxjaguar]

I would think for that to be possible they'd have to sell mostly icecream. Kind of like restaurants having over 60% of their sales come from food vs liquor.

[Charles Hunter]

I don't remember, does the Food Truck bill specifically exempt Ice Cream Trucks (250.1101 - 250.1104)?
Those sections don't give a minimum percentage of sales that must be "ice cream" (in all its variations as defined in the ordinance).

Ice cream truck shall mean every motor vehicle from which ice cream, ice milk, frozen dairy products, ice flavored with syrup, or other confections are sold at retail and shall include all vehicles subject to regulation pursuant to F.S. § 316.253, as may be amended. Ice cream truck shall not include refrigerated, retail trucks which deliver pre-ordered ice cream or other frozen dairy products to a customer's residence.

[TheCat]

The food truck bill does not say anything about ice cream trucks. The section on ice cream trucks doesn't seem to specify any special location restrictions  for ice cream trucks.

this is the direct link to the ice cream truck code:
https://library.municode.com/HTML/12174/level3/TITVIBUTROC_CH250MIBURE_PT11ICCRTRRE.html#TITVIBUTROC_CH250MIBURE_PT11ICCRTRRE_S250.1103ICCRTROPPE

Stephen Dare brought up a good point at our community meeting last night...it is possible that this law directly impacts food delivery vehicles like, say,  papa johns?