Killing Connectivity. The Downtown 'Loop' System

[BridgeTroll]

these people are vogons, and should be taken out and flogged.

Sorry but the term sounded familiar... I had to look it up...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogon

The Vogons are a fictional alien race from the planet Vogsphere in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series by Douglas Adams. Vogons are slug-like but vaguely humanoid, are bulkier than humans and have green skin, although the movie has them have greyish white skin . Vogons are described as mindlessly bureaucratic, aggressive, having "as much sex appeal as a road accident" and the writers of "the third worst poetry in the universe". They are employed as the galactic government's bureaucrats.

[dougskiles]

No question that Beaver, State and Union have destroyed the connection between DT and Springfield.  One solution to restoring the pedestrian connectivity is a northward extension of the Skyway through the FSCJ campus.  There even appears to be a corridor set aside for just such a purpose.  The route could angle east at a 45 degree and terminate in the JEA parking lot at the corner of First & Main.  That would provide better access to Hogan's Creek Park and the business on Main Street.

[duvaldude08]

this is very sad. We destroyed our city for the sake of segregation and racism. Not to mention the expressway purposely being built to separate the whites from the blacks. Now I understand why we were criticized for not having the infrastructure to support the super bowl. Our Urban core is logistically screwed up!!

[tufsu1]

No question that Beaver, State and Union have destroyed the connection between DT and Springfield.  One solution to restoring the pedestrian connectivity is a northward extension of the Skyway through the FSCJ campus.  There even appears to be a corridor set aside for just such a purpose.  The route could angle east at a 45 degree and terminate in the JEA parking lot at the corner of First & Main.  That would provide better access to Hogan's Creek Park and the business on Main Street.

and connect to the streetcar system which as proposed would come up Newell/Hibbard to First and then over to Main St

[montgomerie]

Regency is about dead as any viable competition to downtown. It make for a perfect opportunity for a group of people to come in and create a better downtown that is a bit more of a comfortable experience. After having spent a significant amount of time downtown, specifically in the Hemming Plaza area, only reinforced my dislike for downtown going back to when I first came to the area in late 1988.

[Garden guy]

this is very sad. We destroyed our city for the sake of segregation and racism. Not to mention the expressway purposely being built to separate the whites from the blacks. Now I understand why we were criticized for not having the infrastructure to support the super bowl. Our Urban core is logistically screwed up!!

Criticized? We were the laughing stock of the country that week.....welcome to good ole' conservative Jax.

[tufsu1]

^ care to expound on this?

[Ocklawaha]

"There was a Papal decree, ex cathedra, from all of Cristiandom ordering John Birch and all of the EVIL forces on the right, to prevent Jacksonville, Florida form moving forward. ...Oh yeah, and the decree was issued at First Baptist Church, after which there has NEVER been another religious business person to set foot in the downtown core."

Guess we're screwed.

(Just thought I'd save him the effort, LOL)

OCKLAWAHA

[exnewsman]

Thanks Lake, the picture marvelously illustrates the change.  And Jeh, Its not that the planners of the time had the intention of destroying the retail, in fact it was the opposite.

But that was the outcome.

Downtown was faced with competition from Malls which offered free parking, security, great service, and new stores.

The intent was to create a 'plaza' equipped with 'modern' conveniences like elevated, moving sidewalks.   But it took WAY too long to dig up the roads and repave them with bricks.

I was just discovering downtown as a teenager when it happened.  None of the stores had easy access in hemming park, and you couldn't park for blocks because the streets were all torn up.  It lasted 18 months and by the time it was done, the stores were closed.

When people had to park 5 blocks away from the stores, there was no way at all to get back to their cars before they were issued a ticket.  The meter maids picked off what was left of the suburban customers and drove them permanently out of downtown.

Springfield was completely shut off by the road redirection (on purpose) to cut down on 'crime'.

The reasons which supported this tedious replatting and redirection are gone now.

We need to fix it, and examine the underlying reasons why regional malls were able to compete so devastatingly (free parking, security) and reconnect downtown with its residential component (springfield and durkeeville)

LaVilla School of the Arts does the same thing to Church Street heading east.

[gerschea@gmail.com]

Is no one going to state the obvious? It doesn't matter what is done to union and state street, the bulk of "desirable" people (forgive me i know that's not PC, just could word it any other way) are not going to go down there until the area is cleaned up. I work downtown so i spend plenty of time here. Every time i walk north of the JEA building its like i stick out b/c i am one of the fewer clean cut looking people. I am constantly asked for money, and if we are being honest that alone will make most people uncomfortable. No middle class single female would dare walk this area alone in the current situation. The homeless shelters combined with the huge JTA station just simply make that whole area seem dirty. I dont think i am any better than these people nor i am judging them, but lets be real, having them hang all over the northern part of downtown is not doing that area any favors.

[martt12]

/\ while some might say this is harsh, I soooo agree... I work at JEA and I do not feel comfortable walking anywhere near union/state street.

[thelakelander]

Hmm...I'd bet the house that if there was not a soul on the street, you all would still not be walking in the area.  The same thing was said about Hemming Park a few years back. The true problem is the same one Hemming had. There's really no reason for most to walk over there. The soup kitchens don't help but it's pretty hostile with all the blank walls, fences, bad lighting, fast moving traffic, vacant overgrown lots and surface parking lots.  If there was a reason to walk in the area or cross the streets on a regular basis, people would and the perceived negatives about "desirable" people would fall as well.

[FlaBoy]

It is not really bad to walk. The light turns red, and you walk across. The cars sit there. You just cross four lanes.  For real though, if there was stuff to do there, people would be willing to walk.

Forsyth is a race way at time to the Hart but I don't find it hard to walk when the light is red.

[thelakelander]

They aren't hard to walk or cross. There's just no reason for most to even consider doing so on a regular basis.

[Redbaron616]

Government planning usually makes things worst instead of better. If downtown is so valuable, private industry will figure that out and invest accordingly. Jacksonville Landing and creations like it are the product of government planning. Works for awhile, but eventually struggles.