Jay Fant

[Sentient]

If Jay Fant did "allegedly" lose all his equity in the FGB failure where did he come up with the $138,000 of his own money he initially funded his campaign with?

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/12/24/high-profile-house-races-teed-up-for.html

If my business failed and I lost all my equity I would be hard pressed to come up with $138,000 to fund a campaign. I am also interested to learn what Mr. Fant has been doing since the bank failed that now prepare him to be a competent legislator in Tallahassee?

Well that's a naive statement...

[CutterJ]

If Jay Fant did "allegedly" lose all his equity in the FGB failure where did he come up with the $138,000 of his own money he initially funded his campaign with?

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/12/24/high-profile-house-races-teed-up-for.html

If my business failed and I lost all my equity I would be hard pressed to come up with $138,000 to fund a campaign. I am also interested to learn what Mr. Fant has been doing since the bank failed that now prepare him to be a competent legislator in Tallahassee?

Well that's a naive statement...

Agreed. not sure why quite a few people are confusing ones equity in a single business with his net worth or "losing it all". Clearly he's not hurting. He's a wealthy guy, from a wealthy family.

These days I don't know if that hurts or helps him though.

I do not begrudge Mr. Fant for being the offspring of a wealthy family, I do question weather he was/is so wealthy that he operated FGB with financial impunity. If his personal wealth is that vast that it allowed him to maintain his lifestyle for 32 months without seeking employment in addition to personally funding his campaign with a loan of $138,000 why was this vast wealth not used to shore up FGB? Why did Mr. Fant not have the confidence in himself to put it all on the line when his business needed it the most? He is now asking the voters of Jacksonville to demonstrate their confidence in his ability to lead and govern while just 32 months prior he did not appear to see that quality in himself when it came to running his family business.

I previously asked what Mr. Fant has been doing since the failure of FGB. What lessons or knowledge did he take with him from the bank failure and how has he applied this knowledge in a manner that demonstrates the qualities of a good legislator?

At this time I remain undecided on this race and while I believe it unfair to focus purely on the prior failure of one candidate it does factor predominantly on his record. I would like to hear evidence of his recent business successes in support of his qualifications as a leader.

[LunaticFringe]

So if the CEO of the bank isn't responsible for running it into the ground, who else would be?

[Sentient]

So if the CEO of the bank isn't responsible for running it into the ground, who else would be?

You are late to the party, see my earlier post...  "success has a thousand fathers, failure stands an orphan"


BTW how did your real estate portfolio perform for you from 2007-2012?   You caught the news that over 60 Florida banks failed in the meltdown right?

[fieldafm]

So if the CEO of the bank isn't responsible for running it into the ground, who else would be?

You are late to the party, see my earlier post...  "success has a thousand fathers, failure stands an orphan"


BTW how did your real estate portfolio perform for you from 2007-2012?   You caught the news that over 60 Florida banks failed in the meltdown right?

Banks with fickle deposit bases (with a high amount of brokered deposits) that made bad bets (IE not run well) certainly did not fare well during the recession.

Banks with very strong deposit bases (IE First Guaranty) that didn't consistently double down on bad bets to a curiously suspect group of the same borrowers and then aggresivley acted to maintain capital ratios by correcting their balance sheets, performed much better (that's called fiscally responsible management)

FG had many opportunities to clean up their balance sheets and/or merge with other institutions for many years during the meltdown. They chose not to, and then the FDIC finally took over (and blocked a ridiculously bad sale attempt).

You are using broad, macroeconomic factors to gloss over some very specific microeconomic failures at FG. Not every bank or every bank employee in the world was put out on the streets from 2007-2012.

BTW how did your real estate portfolio perform for you from 2007-2012?

Quite well actually.

[TheCat]

Fant's campaign is aware of this thread. They are free to submit an op-ed about their positions and/or respond to what is being discussed in this thread.

[Sentient]

So if the CEO of the bank isn't responsible for running it into the ground, who else would be?

You are late to the party, see my earlier post...  "success has a thousand fathers, failure stands an orphan"


BTW how did your real estate portfolio perform for you from 2007-2012?   You caught the news that over 60 Florida banks failed in the meltdown right?

Banks with fickle deposit bases (with a high amount of brokered deposits) that made bad bets (IE not run well) certainly did not fare well during the recession.

HYPERBOLE ALERT - "bad bets"  really?  Bets?  Sure when loans don't work out they look "risky"...  How many developers went down here in Jax during the same period?

Banks with very strong deposit bases (IE First Guaranty) that didn't consistently double down on bad bets to a curiously suspect group of the same borrowers and then aggresivley acted to maintain capital ratios by correcting their balance sheets, performed much better (that's called fiscally responsible management)

AGGRESSIVELY ACTED - yes that's code for dumping all the loans - of local people, many of whom did try to work things out  - and further cratering the local real estate market faster, WHILE decimating your held asset values ... see they get marked down as well when everything gets marked down.  ergo spiral.


FG had many opportunities to clean up their balance sheets and/or merge with other institutions for many years during the meltdown. They chose not to, and then the FDIC finally took over (and blocked a ridiculously bad sale attempt).

Yeah a business owner can sell their business any day they want to.  Merge = sale.  You know there were lots of flat lining banks looking to prop each other up.  A hail mary.  I said at the outset, FG's big mistake was believing in people and thinking they could work out the loans as the defaults climbed, at a slow enough pace not to crater the rest of the assets held/values.  Was it a mistake, yes, because it didn't work.  But it was also principled way to try and get out of a mess.  Not cut and run and flush everything and everyone.

Friends - Field sounds like he would have your ass in court in 60 days and be looking to unload on another bank...

You are using broad, macroeconomic factors to gloss over some very specific microeconomic failures at FG. Not every bank or every bank employee in the world was put out on the streets from 2007-2012.

YOU CAN"T UNLINK THE MACRO

BTW how did your real estate portfolio perform for you from 2007-2012?

Quite well actually.

[fieldafm]

Hyperbole?

Umm, over 1/3 of FG's loans were chronically delinquent for the three years prior to the FDIC seizing the bank. That's a direct result of suspect lending practices. FG's Texas ratios were horrid and the capital ratios were dangerously low as a direct result of not aggressively trying to fix the health of their balance sheets and doubling down lending to a network of friends. This is all factual information that is publicly available, and cited repeatedly by the FDIC for many years prior to FG failing. No hyperbole, just facts.

Yes, merge does equal sale. One of many options available to save the bank from failure. Pride is a terrible sin to have when reality is kicking you in the nuts. Sometimes you have to check your ego at the door, and do what's best for the future of your business when you can't cover your obligations. It's called responsibility. I would hope an elected official would understand the concept.

Biggest mistake was believing in people?

There are some people that think that its everyone else's fault but their own. I sure as hell don't want that kind of person representing me in Tallahassee.

Today, i received no less than 4 direct mailers about how much of a victim Jay Fant is. One had the audacity to say that the FDIC didn't 'raid' First Guaranty, instead painting a rosy picture about how the FDIC simply assisted in a transfer to another bank and that taxpayers weren't on the hook.  I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter BULLSHIT.  The FDIC comes in and physically locks the door while federal officers physically separate the officers of the bank from handling records and money. Men and women with sidearms tell you to leave. They then transfer a portion of the bank's assets and liabilities to another bank, and then eat the remaining loan loss provisions. FDIC premiums were depleted long before FG got taken over, meaning almost $30 million of chronically bad debt (that FG REFUSED to deal with) was paid for by taxpayers.

I don't work for Renner, nor have even donated to his campaign. But Paul Renner has more integrity in his smallest toenail than what Jay Fant has shown over the last 8 years.


This thread has actually made me want to personally call every voter I know in this district to make sure they understand the stakes in this election. Congratulations, you just made me a Paul Renner activist.

[mtraininjax]

Paul Renner's HQ is at the corner of Dancy and Park, for those interested.

[Sentient]

Hyperbole?

Umm, over 1/3 of FG's loans were chronically delinquent for the three years prior to the FDIC seizing the bank. That's a direct result of suspect lending practices. FG's Texas ratios were horrid and the capital ratios were dangerously low as a direct result of not aggressively trying to fix the health of their balance sheets and doubling down lending to a network of friends. This is all factual information that is publicly available, and cited repeatedly by the FDIC for many years prior to FG failing. No hyperbole, just facts.

Yes, merge does equal sale. One of many options available to save the bank from failure. Pride is a terrible sin to have when reality is kicking you in the nuts. Sometimes you have to check your ego at the door, and do what's best for the future of your business when you can't cover your obligations. It's called responsibility. I would hope an elected official would understand the concept.

Biggest mistake was believing in people?

There are some people that think that its everyone else's fault but their own. I sure as hell don't want that kind of person representing me in Tallahassee.

Today, i received no less than 4 direct mailers about how much of a victim Jay Fant is. One had the audacity to say that the FDIC didn't 'raid' First Guaranty, instead painting a rosy picture about how the FDIC simply assisted in a transfer to another bank and that taxpayers weren't on the hook.  I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter BULLSHIT.  The FDIC comes in and physically locks the door while federal officers physically separate the officers of the bank from handling records and money. Men and women with sidearms tell you to leave. They then transfer a portion of the bank's assets and liabilities to another bank, and then eat the remaining loan loss provisions. FDIC premiums were depleted long before FG got taken over, meaning almost $30 million of chronically bad debt (that FG REFUSED to deal with) was paid for by taxpayers.

I don't work for Renner, nor have even donated to his campaign. But Paul Renner has more integrity in his smallest toenail than what Jay Fant has shown over the last 8 years.


This thread has actually made me want to personally call every voter I know in this district to make sure they understand the stakes in this election. Congratulations, you just made me a Paul Renner activist.

You're just repeating yourself now...  with the same hyperbole...   at least this is clear of you "a Paul Renner activist".  ETA: my mistake, in your first post on this thread you declared yourself a "wholehearted Paul Renner supporter"...  so I guess I didn't make you one after all...

"I am wholeheartedly supporting Paul Renner and look forward to voting for him later this month."

As to Renner's alleged integrity...  how do you sign a clean campaign promise and then have your team put out a hatchet piece?  Hmmmmm.   Sounds like something a win at all costs litigation attorney would be used to doing.  Is this what passes for integrity in office?

"It's always interesting to see who fires first, how the opponents respond, and how the one who fired first tries to deny responsibility. It has become a farce.

Consider what happened in Florida House District 15 last week.

Fant Brenner 1Republican candidates Jay Fant and Paul Renner are vying to replace term-limited Rep. Daniel Davis in the Jacksonville-area district.

In June, Fant challenged Renner to sign a clean-campaign pledge. Renner responded within a day or two, and they worked out the terms for what seemed like a good compact.

Well, here we are with three weeks to go, and all hell has broken loose. At the end of last week, the Better Florida Fund Corp. delivered a karate-chop mailer, criticizing Fant for the way he handled his family banking business during the recession. Every community bank in Florida had difficulty during the recession, so no big deal, right?

Not the way the Better Florida Fund sold it, using the most lurid vocabulary to try to make Fant out to be nothing short of Bernie Madoff.

Disappointing tactics, but that's the way the cards are played."

[fieldafm]

with the same hyperbole

What I have found in my career, is that Federal regulators don't deal in hypotheticals. They deal in reality. In reality, First Guaranty was run into the ground. Period.

As to Renner's alleged integrity

When Jay Fant was running a century old business into the ground, Paul Renner left a lucrative private practice (which he didn't bankrupt, btw) to go defend his country.

It's clear you don't know the first thing about integrity.

[LunaticFringe]

Is it possible that Fant asked for the clean campaign pledge because he knew he had baggage and Renner was clean? Of course. Actually a smart tactic. And unfortunately, since our newspaper is utterly worthless, another party had to bring Fant's past to light. Otherwise, he gets to skate by framing the failures in his professional life in his own way. Shouldn't the hometown paper at least take a look at:

1. JEA rates substantially increasing while Fant was a board member who voted for every one of them
2. Fant using our money to pay his current campaign consultant while on the JEA board
3. The lack of complete financial disclosure to the state. How can you loan your campaign the amount he did while reporting the relatively low assets he claims? We all know that since he choked on his own silver spoon he decided to try his wife's golden one.

[Badfinger]

Hyperbole?

Umm, over 1/3 of FG's loans were chronically delinquent for the three years prior to the FDIC seizing the bank. That's a direct result of suspect lending practices. FG's Texas ratios were horrid and the capital ratios were dangerously low as a direct result of not aggressively trying to fix the health of their balance sheets and doubling down lending to a network of friends. This is all factual information that is publicly available, and cited repeatedly by the FDIC for many years prior to FG failing. No hyperbole, just facts.

Yes, merge does equal sale. One of many options available to save the bank from failure. Pride is a terrible sin to have when reality is kicking you in the nuts. Sometimes you have to check your ego at the door, and do what's best for the future of your business when you can't cover your obligations. It's called responsibility. I would hope an elected official would understand the concept.

Biggest mistake was believing in people?

There are some people that think that its everyone else's fault but their own. I sure as hell don't want that kind of person representing me in Tallahassee.

Today, i received no less than 4 direct mailers about how much of a victim Jay Fant is. One had the audacity to say that the FDIC didn't 'raid' First Guaranty, instead painting a rosy picture about how the FDIC simply assisted in a transfer to another bank and that taxpayers weren't on the hook.  I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter BULLSHIT.  The FDIC comes in and physically locks the door while federal officers physically separate the officers of the bank from handling records and money. Men and women with sidearms tell you to leave. They then transfer a portion of the bank's assets and liabilities to another bank, and then eat the remaining loan loss provisions. FDIC premiums were depleted long before FG got taken over, meaning almost $30 million of chronically bad debt (that FG REFUSED to deal with) was paid for by taxpayers.

I don't work for Renner, nor have even donated to his campaign. But Paul Renner has more integrity in his smallest toenail than what Jay Fant has shown over the last 8 years.


This thread has actually made me want to personally call every voter I know in this district to make sure they understand the stakes in this election. Congratulations, you just made me a Paul Renner activist.

You're just repeating yourself now...  with the same hyperbole...   at least this is clear of you "a Paul Renner activist".

As to Renner's alleged integrity...  how do you sign a clean campaign promise and then have your team put out a hatchet piece?  Hmmmmm.   Sounds like something a win at all costs litigation attorney would be used to doing.  Is this what passes for integrity in office?

"It's always interesting to see who fires first, how the opponents respond, and how the one who fired first tries to deny responsibility. It has become a farce.

Consider what happened in Florida House District 15 last week.

Fant Brenner 1Republican candidates Jay Fant and Paul Renner are vying to replace term-limited Rep. Daniel Davis in the Jacksonville-area district.

In June, Fant challenged Renner to sign a clean-campaign pledge. Renner responded within a day or two, and they worked out the terms for what seemed like a good compact.

Well, here we are with three weeks to go, and all hell has broken loose. At the end of last week, the Better Florida Fund Corp. delivered a karate-chop mailer, criticizing Fant for the way he handled his family banking business during the recession. Every community bank in Florida had difficulty during the recession, so no big deal, right?

Not the way the Better Florida Fund sold it, using the most lurid vocabulary to try to make Fant out to be nothing short of Bernie Madoff.

Disappointing tactics, but that's the way the cards are played."

Looking at the Fant mail piece that includes the "Florida Republican Code of Conduct" that he an Renner both signed and then comparing it to the information that I received about the bank, it is hard to see how Renner could be outside the terms of it.

Let's take a look:

"I will limit any charges against my opponent(s) to legitimate differences regarding opinion, record, qualifications, experience, conduct and past positions held"

Check--Fant's tenure as CEO during the banks demise would seem to be in bounds.

"I will at all times tell the truth, with complete documentation from legitimate verifiable sources for any charges against my opponents (s)."

Check--Mail, radio and television have all source cited either credible media sources or the actual FDIC documents regarding the forced closure of FGB.

All these crocodile tears from Fant's team are starting to smell like desperation.

[Sentient]

with the same hyperbole

What I have found in my career, is that Federal regulators don't deal in hypotheticals. They deal in reality. In reality, First Guaranty was run into the ground. Period.

As to Renner's alleged integrity

When Jay Fant was running a century old business into the ground, Paul Renner left a lucrative private practice (which he didn't bankrupt, btw) to go defend his country.

It's clear you don't know the first thing about integrity.

Ummm... according to Renner's own web site, he was a reservist who was mobilized.  You do know that right?  It's great he was serving our country as a reservist, but don't propagandize that he stopped chasing the law bucks in his 10 attorney firm to go enlist...

"Paul has served as a naval officer, both on active duty and in the reserves.  He was recently mobilized to Afghanistan where he served with a Joint Task Force."

[fieldafm]

You do realize that you actually have to volunteer to be in the military, right?  They don't just sentence you to enlist when the FDIC takes over your failing bank.