Where is this so-called 'Third-World?'

[Ocklawaha]

Take two large cities, close to the same size, both manufacturing centers, both away from the 'tourism centers' and both steeped in the culture of the region...

Medellin has traffic




Jacksonville has traffic



To me the story is in how each responds to its needs and the needs of ALL of its citizens, so lets take a look at urban Medellin, a city in a river valley, high in the Andes, that could be best described as a city in a bowl.





Medellin Metro network, a system of two intersecting lines, 20+ miles in length, now into the second generation of equipment and rapidly expanding into the surrounding countryside.


The Metro-Cable System, three lines up and running and more to come. The poor people scattered onto the distant mountain sides, and to serve them the transit agency offers free metro-cable trips down to the rail lines.


One of the newest phases, is the rubber tired Medellin Tranvia system, which is operated with a guide rail.




Lastly the new BRT system ties it all together... Not BRT down a frequently jammed 'US Highway' but TRUE BRT with dedicated lanes, enclosed climate-controlled stations, center lanes, pedestrian overpasses etc... This is NOT a new bus stop along Lem Turner! Overall the systems run with about a 6 minute headway.





The absolutely stunning beautiful skyline of Jacksonville belies a truth therein, 'Developmental Paralysis.'




Count on JTA to send a bus your way every 45 minutes.


The expansion is coming, 12 years and counting.


Our BRT will look just like our 'non-BRT' which begs the question, when is BRT NOT BRT?


Our own light rail/streetcar plans have just been re-re-re-essased/redrawn again, waiting for a streetcar? Don't hold your breath!

Now you will excuse me in wondering out loud, just where the hell is this so-called THIRD WORLD?

VIVA COLOMBIA!

VIVA MEDELLIN! 

and yes...

VIVA JACKSONVILLE!

[ben says]

Amen Ock 

[simms3]

I get your point and it's well taken.  Col. is a totally different country than it was 20 years ago, though (when Medellin was still very unsafe for US caucasians and kidnappings were frequent).  I have family in Medellin and Barranquilla and have visited, as well.  There are some 3rd world aspects to Colombia still, with poverty/crime that makes Jacksonville's NW side look alright, but generally I would call Colombia a "developing" country, not a true third world country.  Bogota has been quite developed, safe, and international for basically its entire western existence.

SA as a whole is still pretty unstable - look at Venezuela next door.  Venezuela was even wealthier and more developed than Colombia today when my mother lived there in the 80s, and it has completely regressed since.  Chile is basically on par with the US today, and while I still haven't been, I imagine Santiago to be every bit as clean, impressive, safe, wealthy, and developed as Boston today.

Also, other countries in general still build infrastructure, especially developing/urbanizing countries such as Col (look at China for the top of that example).  The US is the complete opposite at this point.  Even larger cities like Boston and SF are having trouble with NIMBYs and funding to complete rail lines and develop appropriately for their scale, let alone a city like Jax which is not on anyone's radar.

And to Apache's point, Medellin is a much larger city than Jax; I wouldn't say they're roughly the same size.  According to Wiki, the Metro is 446 sq mi and has 3.6 million inhabitants.  That's more like SF, Boston, Philly, or DC size, frankly.

[Ocklawaha]

http://www.youtube.com/v/hBtnksTvjCg?version=3&hl=en_US
Simms I'd agree for the most part, Medellin is indeed sprawled, however the population figures are a bit skewed (more then JAX) as most villages in Antioquia (Department = State) are counted as Medellin, and brother that is some stretch... It's almost the Greek City-State system from Ancient times of course modernized to date. I'd say within that bowl of Medellin itself we're probably about/roughly the same size. Metro to Metro Medellin is larger on paper, but much of that Metro is virtually inaccessible, yes there are still entire towns that duplicate Arkansas... Jeep trails only... IF the road is dry. But your right Colombia is pulling even VERY fast. My railroad was a tad grittier then the slick metros. This first video is a good look at the Colombia I dove into, I'd call it MY COLOMBIA! This is old style railroading, shitty track, no traffic, movement by 'track warrants' and 'train orders' (you can see these being handed up on the fly in the video) BTW this was common on the 'A' line in JAX at the Yukon depot for example until around 1970.
One goes into a job like that expecting to help assimilate the railroad culture into the 21St Century, but once you've adjusted to their culture, walked with them, danced with them, partied with them, partied with them, partied with them, oh and partied with them,  some more, you find yourself as the one who was assimilated. I wouldn't trade it for a pot of gold. As for safety, the drug wars are over for all practical purposes, yes there are still 'narco-commie-marxists' here and there but the threat is WAY overblown in the USA. I've had dinner with them! I know people in JAX that they have helped by paying airfare and providing medical attention... I don't agree with their politics, but in the boonies of the railroad world, they were all around me and never, NEVER, did anything but smile, or offer a drink.


http://www.youtube.com/v/jyZK3slQC10?hl=en_US
Now from the date of that first video this is what I left in Colombia... We are talking about a country that has COMPLETELY changed its face. Freeways have replaced bumpy 3rd world roads, the railroads? Just look at the videos! The cities? Same change! Buses? No more 'Chiva's' todays coaches would make Greyhound and JTA blush. Architecture? We ain't even close! One more thing I'm sure you know, but the untraveled American or Jaxson won't: Those ugly stacked up looking red block houses... Well they use the old world, build to the sidewalk and the neighbors wall construction, once you are through the door, those places generally open up to broad to lush courtyards, modern interiors and beautiful craftsmanship details. Here's a shot in the A-Typical Condo with the A-Typical Colombian interior.




New Metro de Bogota (rendering)


New Bogota Commuter Rail/Light Rail System on the freight rail line.


Mule Trails? Hee Hee!


Urban Freeway, JAXSONS note the PEDESTRIAN and BICYCLE accommodation's, and amusement park.


Not your Grandmothers Colombia...

Not your Mothers Colombia...

Hells Bells, this isn't even your older sibling's Colombia...

[simms3]

Ock,

I totally share your sympathies with Colombia and think it's great.  I know you're the most versed in the country since you worked/lived there and married someone from there, so I don't really feel like nit picking your posts, only appreciating them.  However, it's just my personality to nit-pick.

Having seen Colombian cities (granted not in past 5 years, but certainly in past 10, Jax is a little tiny town comparatively speaking in every possible way except for geographic area.  So on paper, Medellin has 2.5 million people in 147 sq mi (almost SF density at 17,000 ppsm) and 3.6 million people in 445 sq mi, which while maybe that includes inaccessible towns that shouldn't be counted as part of the metro, for some reason (this is half the size of Duval County alone), that's still a density of 8,090 ppsm, which is far denser than really the densest parts of Jax.  It's a much larger city.

Bogota is quite frankly on a whole different level.  GaWcc calls it a "Beta" world city and apparently according to Wiki it's nicknamed the "Athens of South America" for its many universities and libraries, which doesn't surprise me.  It has a per capita GDP 50% higher than even Medellin's and contains 7.67 million people in the "Capital District", which is still only 613 sq mi.  Its metro supposedly has 10.76 million people, and is probably the size of basically Duval County.  So its a *massive* developing and rapidly growing/gentrifying city that frankly should have a pretty state of the art subway system (let's be real...since Col. is developing and all and isn't really 3rd world anymore in the traditional sense).

Finally, I don't know if by "A-typical" you mean atypical, or typical, but those are upper class apartments that would even be upper class in America's or Europe's wealthiest cities.  My family lives *very* comfortably down in Colombia (shard glass walls for one uncle, an aunt in a gated community on a hilltop, and another uncle in a high rise apartment much like what you pictured), and most people simply don't live like that, except for maybe in Monaco or Luxembourg, lol.  Though I agree that many buildings in SA (and frankly most of the urban world) look unassuming from the outside, until you get inside.

I'm especially impressed with the way housing costs and taxes are handled in Col. and much of SA.  Down payments have such a high minimum (mandated by regulation) and housing is seen as one of the only stable "investments" and S&L equivalent institutions in SA, so people put their money towards it in a totally enhanced way from what people do here.  People here in America have options to really diversity their investments and holdings between safe FDIC ensured bank accounts and various financial instruments, reserving 10-25% down for a home, whereas people in SA buy a home as soon as they can put 30-50+++% down, often paying cash to own it outright.  Banks aren't quite as safe and there aren't as many outlets for other investments.  So housing is very very very expensive, but generally regarded as very safe in SA.  My former company is now operating a Latin American fund and investigating routes to invest in Col, Brazil, and Peru.  I think they are investing in housing and various redevelopment ploys as implemented in Medellin.

[I-10east]

That highway roundabout with the looping coaster in the foreground is possibly the weirdest highway infrastructure that I ever seen, even by foreign standards. I guess that it's eco-friendly or whatever the hell.

[Josh]

"Third-world" is a misnomer as it has evolved from its original Cold War definition to simply mean "shithole developing nation" in our current lexicon. Numerous European economic powerhouses are technically "third-world."

Of course that has nothing to do with the real point of this thread 

[IrvAdams]

Excellent transportation examples, Ock. Unfortunately I think it will be many years before most of the US, much less us in spread-out and un-walkable Florida, and even less likely us in really-spread-out and dangerous-on-foot Jacksonville, embrace the obvious enhancements of creative public transit.

Give me a Mayor who will walk or ride her bike to work. Now, there's a good publicity move. Just a strong public statement that an administration is solidly behind non-automobile transit. Another nice baby step would be to see actual BRT. Or even frequent, smartphone-tracked buses along the most oft-traveled boulevards. At least.