Potential Solutions to Gun Violence

[finehoe]

It would seem an equally powerful anti lobby would even things out?  Why is there not one?  Why is the anti gun lobby apparently so powerless?

I've explained why I brought up the NRA-research thing.  Apparently you think posting a listing of "gun control" groups somehow refutes my point, but unless you have a relevant example of how these groups hinder in finding solutions, you may want to follow your own admonition.

As this is a thread about exploring solutions...  We all understand what lobbyists do.  Usually there are lobbyists on both sides of issues... pro and con.  While we could debate whether these groups should have influence or not it really is not helpful here and now.

[finehoe]

So...no solutions/ideas then. check.

BT can you start a whine about the right thread for the finehoe?

Wow, what an intellectual powerhouse you are!

[NotNow]

Easy, FH.  Any solutions to suggest for this thread?

[BridgeTroll]

Lets circle back a bit and see if we can move into a more positive tone for everyone... finehoe brought up a perspective that I had heard before but no one has ever seriously tried to convince me that this would be a way to help end gun violence.  finehoe said...

I think it's worth pointing out that prior to the mid-60s or so, carnage on the roads was just taken as a given (that's why crashes were called "accidents"), and that nothing really could be done about it, that humans were flawed creatures so auto-related deaths would always be with us.  But then a change of mind-set came about, and death and injury by automobile came to be viewed as a public health problem.

How would you envision this?  Is this a federal program?  Expand this thought please...

[finehoe]

The American College of Physicians believes doctors must take action against the 32,000 deaths and 74,000 injures caused by guns in the United States each year.  To support their view that guns are a public health issue, the association of 137,000 internal medicine physicians noted that there are about 11,000 homicides, 19,000 suicides and more than 2,000 fatal accidents involving guns every year. The total is down from its 1993 peak, and the number of gun homicides has declined even more rapidly, but the figure is still one of the highest in the developed world.

The average of 88 gun deaths per day is "a good-sized airplane crash every three days," said Molly Cooke, the organization's president.

Some of the group's recommendations:

• Doctors should counsel patients on the risks of having guns in the home, particularly if children, adolescents, people with dementia, the mentally ill or people with substance abuse problems live there.

• Universal background checks for gun-buyers, a ban on guns that don't show up on metal detectors and tracers and tags on guns and ammunition.

• Laws to ban the sale and manufacture of guns for civilians that are designed with features that "increase their rapid killing capacity," i.e. assault weapons and semiautomatic weapons.  Cooke called assault weapons "rapid slaughter machines" that were developed for military purposes. "We really could not persuade ourselves that there was a good reason for the average Joe Citizen to have a gun like that," Cooke said.

• Built-in trigger locks and signals that guns are loaded.

http://www.acponline.org/pressroom/reduce_firearms_deaths.htm

[BridgeTroll]

• Doctors should counsel patients on the risks of having guns in the home, particularly if children, adolescents, people with dementia, the mentally ill or people with substance abuse problems live there.

I think this is a reasonable idea.

• Universal background checks for gun-buyers, a ban on guns that don't show up on metal detectors and tracers and tags on guns and ammunition.

We have background checks... what would you do differently?  If they are referring to ceramic and plastic guns I have no issue with that.  Not sure what "tracers and tags" are.

[finehoe]

finehoe brought up a perspective that I had heard before but no one has ever seriously tried to convince me that this would be a way to help end gun violence. 

Just for the record, when I brought up car crashes as a public health issue, it wasn't an advocacy of what the ACP is saying (I just posted their piece above for you all to debate).  My point was this:

We had a problem that resulted in death and injury.
We made certain assumptions about why that was the case.
Then we did actual research and data collection on the problem and it showed that many of those assumptions weren't valid.
We came up with solutions that utilized the facts the research came up with.
Said solutions resulted in reduction of death and injury.

I get it, speculating and debating various "solutions" is fun, but in actuality without the facts on the ground to base those solutions on, there is a good chance they won't be valid.  And if you have entities that would rather shut down research on what the facts actually are, then it suggests those entities aren't really interested in a "solution". 

So I apologize for interjecting a bit of reality into the thread; I will refrain from further posting on it. 

[NotNow]

• Doctors should counsel patients on the risks of having guns in the home, particularly if children, adolescents, people with dementia, the mentally ill or people with substance abuse problems live there.

I think this is a reasonable idea.

• Universal background checks for gun-buyers, a ban on guns that don't show up on metal detectors and tracers and tags on guns and ammunition.

We have background checks... what would you do differently?  If they are referring to ceramic and plastic guns I have no issue with that.  Not sure what "tracers and tags" are.

I don't see the correlation as to why doctors should counsel people regarding guns. Just because they read some statistics I suppose? Why not my financial advisor or mechanic. I also don't see that helping. Many people don't see doctors regularly. Doctors counsel people to eat right and not smoke, which is more aligned with their profession than gun deaths, and most people don't listen. I'm also not sure many doctors would embrace that role.
I'm starting to think it's not unreasonable to have a license for the responsibility of gun ownership. Counseling and education would come during the licensing.

I don't see this as a "public health" issue.  It is a regulatory matter.  What good would a "license" do?  Do you think that would stop the kind of crazies that we are discussing here?  Would it even stop the criminal element?  How about suicides?      I don't think licensing owners would be Constitutional either.  So I vote no doctors and no licenses.

[BridgeTroll]

finehoe brought up a perspective that I had heard before but no one has ever seriously tried to convince me that this would be a way to help end gun violence. 

Just for the record, when I brought up car crashes as a public health issue, it wasn't an advocacy of what the ACP is saying (I just posted their piece above for you all to debate).  My point was this:

We had a problem that resulted in death and injury.
We made certain assumptions about why that was the case.
Then we did actual research and data collection on the problem and it showed that many of those assumptions weren't valid.
We came up with solutions that utilized the facts the research came up with.
Said solutions resulted in reduction of death and injury.

I get it, speculating and debating various "solutions" is fun, but in actuality without the facts on the ground to base those solutions on, there is a good chance they won't be valid.  And if you have entities that would rather shut down research on what the facts actually are, then it suggests those entities aren't really interested in a "solution". 

So I apologize for interjecting a bit of reality into the thread; I will refrain from further posting on it. 

I think that's a good thing as you really did not contribute anything.  It was also pretty clear that the most rabid Gun control nutz really did not have much to say at all.  So as many of us already knew... finger pointing and name calling is all we can expect.  I do realize it is therapeutic for those doing so as they try to assuage their own complicity in these tragic happenings.

I do want to thank those who did contribute in a positive manner.  It is the proper way to have these discussions.  Finger pointing, name calling, and one sided opinion pieces are counter productive and are only designed to inflame...

[Know Growth]

'Range "Cold"!Cylinders,actions open. All behind The Line until signal given to advance forward to targets'

......recited hundreds of times a month,Gateway Rifle & Pistol Club   Just North of 103 street.

Check it out,and the surrounding neighborhoods too. Promise oneself to conduct both tours.