Trolleys to roll into Five Points

[David]

I believe it has already improved parking in five points and put more pedestrians on the sidewalks. We ate at Donna Maria's outside today and watched all the pretty 20 year olds and business people going up and down the sidewalks.  It didn't even seem like Jacksonville it was very vibrant, active and happening.  I think they have "made five points a scene."   

Exactly! There was a certain kind of energy in the air.

Now let's just see how many people ride it when it goes up to a whopping 50 cents!

[Charles Hunter]

The problem with serving Baptist Medical would seem to be the same as what sunk JTA's San Marco shuttle bus a few years ago - the FECRR that pretty much puts BMC on an island.  And there are always a couple trains during lunch hour - really screws up keeping a bus on schedule.

[thelakelander]

The solution would have to come in the form of a grade separated crossing.  Baptist, Nemours, Aetna, etc. are too large to ignore for any transit system being set up to help serve the Southbank.  So this is where I'd say its good to cut back on waste elsewhere (like building BRT parallel to the CSX A line) and spend a little more on a grade separated crossing that could help give better access to Baptist and San Marco, for both BRT and regular vehicular traffic.

[JeffreyS]

I have walked from BMC to the skyway a few times. A short easy walk but I haven't ever been caught by a train.

[gatorback]

The solution would have to come in the form of a grade separated crossing.  Baptist, Nemours, Aetna, etc. are too large to ignore for any transit system being set up to help serve the Southbank.  So this is where I'd say its good to cut back on waste elsewhere (like building BRT parallel to the CSX A line) and spend a little more on a grade separated crossing that could help give better access to Baptist and San Marco, for both BRT and regular vehicular traffic.

Baptist could contribute to the cause as that college paid millions to have the train go to it's campus.  Wait, wouldn't you just walk to the Skyway and then take the skyway 1 stop then jump on the trolly, or a bus to Riverside?  Or is that just too much for all those "tree hugging" SUV lovers terrorist supporters?

[Charles Hunter]

The solution would have to come in the form of a grade separated crossing.  Baptist, Nemours, Aetna, etc. are too large to ignore for any transit system being set up to help serve the Southbank.  So this is where I'd say its good to cut back on waste elsewhere (like building BRT parallel to the CSX A line) and spend a little more on a grade separated crossing that could help give better access to Baptist and San Marco, for both BRT and regular vehicular traffic.

Hmmm ... interesting engineering problem.  A tunnel taking Prudential Drive under the FEC was proposed a long time ago - but being so close to the river, wetness is an issue.  Taking Prudential Drive over is complicated by the existing Acosta Bridge overpass.  The only "business" that would have access problems from either a tunnel or overpass is the MPO, and they could move.

[JeffreyS]

Do we know if the JTA is looking at a similar plan for San Marco maybe based on how successful the Riverside Trolley turns out to be.  It is a very similar route major employers to popular dinning  and shopping area. It would also link San Marco square with the skyway. 

[Charles Hunter]

They tried a San Marco shuttle a year or two ago, and it did poorly.  That FEC train would stop the bus on San Marco and on Hendricks.  Bus couldn't keep schedule, people were late getting back from lunch, didn't ride anymore.  Service pulled.

[Coolyfett]

I work on Riverside at Fidelity and I for one am so glad this trolly is operational.  Going to lunch from Fidelity to downtown is a PAIN. To be able to hop on the trolley without dealing with 5 Points' traffic or downtown's parking was great!

Don't you still have to sit in the 5 points traffic while on that trolley?

[Coolyfett]

also, nobody really cares what the trolleys really are...other than Ock!

I'm not so sure about that one. That thing is a bus.

I hope the community enjoys riding that thing. It would be better off if they would just extend the right of way Skyway down to the corner of Park and Post across the street from that church, but JTA wants to keep buying gas.  .

The ways of the turtle rules supreme.........

[Coolyfett]

I spoke to a restaurant owner in the Landing, and he says business has trippled since the trolley started. See what happens when you connect the correct areas? Too bad there was no foresight to have the skyway stop right inside the Landing, and another stop in 5 points.

You can get to the landing from Central Station. Its a 3 min walk. I do agree with the Skyway being near 5 points though.

[tufsu1]

also, nobody really cares what the trolleys really are...other than Ock!

I'm not so sure about that one. That thing is a bus.

I hope the community enjoys riding that thing. It would be better off if they would just extend the right of way Skyway down to the corner of Park and Post across the street from that church, but JTA wants to keep buying gas.  .

The ways of the turtle rules supreme.........

the point of my argument is that people will still ride...as the # are showing....

the concern with real trolleys in the short-term is that they are nothing more than a tourist attraction...take what's happening in Tampa as an example....they are struggling for riders (cost is part of the problem) and the system is not considered a commuter alternative.

Sure, a real trolley on set tracks could encourage economic development in the long-pterm that would then yield more riders....but you have to start somewhere.

[Ocklawaha]

the concern with real trolleys in the short-term is that they are nothing more than a tourist attraction...take what's happening in Tampa as an example....they are struggling for riders (cost is part of the problem) and the system is not considered a commuter alternative.

Sorry to bust the bubble but TAMPA and JACKSONVILLE have very different expectations from their Trolleys:

Jacksonville's annual target goal is just over 10,000 riders a year on the Riverside "PCT Trolley". There is no expected development as a direct result of the "Trolley"...

Tampa is having some trouble meeting the ridership goal of 500,000 per year. Year one saw "ONLY" 435,000 passengers and last year was at a lowly 440,000. So they are working on a new station sponsorship program to extend the grant for operations, and during off hours only 2 cars will run, 4 cars will continue to run at the peak hours. Line extension will make the trourist ride part of the HART metro transit system. Due to the fixed guideway of the Trolley, Tampa has over 1.1 BILLION dollars in new development as a direct result of the trolley.

The bus and highway industry are having a field day with "Tampa Fails", one would think weeds were growing in the streets. I wish we could FAIL as well as they have!

New Station sponsors
New Line extension
Massive Development

DIOS MIO!

Ocklawaha

[tufsu1]

so Ock...why has ridership on the Tampa line not increased over the 5+ years its been open...especially sxince it paralells a whole bunch of new development...could it be that it caters almost soley to tourists?

Speaking of the new development, there is a strong argument that it was not spurred by the streetcar...just good planning that promotoed development in a long underutilized area near the water and downtown...and that the streetcar was a component of thatg good planning

[thelakelander]

I fall in the camp of those that believe the Tampa streetcar was a major element in attracting development in the Channel District.  It also does not hurt that the city planned a series of public backed attractions and destinations along the route (ex. convention center, Channelside, Cruise Port, Aquarium, etc.).  However, it will remain a tourist train as long as it is not extended into the core of downtown or to nearby areas with high residential density, such as Hyde Park, Tampa Heights or University of Tampa.

Locally, if Jax were to build a real streetcar system, if it does not connect downtown with existing residential neighborhoods, it would most likely become a tourist train (although still development encouraging) as well.