Trolleys to roll into Five Points

[Webini]

I took the trolley downtown for lunch today.  Me and other employees from Fidelity and BlueC ross made up more than half the riders going.  This was in the 11 o'clock hour, so I could only guess that the numbers increased during normal lunch hours.  Also, everyone that i've spoken to or taken lunch with are more interested in going downtown since 5 points is really the norm to us.  It's a short and easy walk (even during the summer months) so it's not like we're missing out of the experience due to distance or traffic, unlike with the Landing and other places downtown. 

[JeffreyS]

Do the stops have route maps included for wayfinding?

There was a map on the potato chip truck sign at the riverside Starbucks.  I don't know if the rest have maps. I will check.

[Ocklawaha]

FOR THE LOVE OF SAINT ELMO'S FIRE... and the 10,000Th time...
"To my deluded City and it's minions with love"


This is a Jacksonville PCT "Trolley" which is really a bus on a truck frame with fake details to attempt to fool you into believing you are really high quality enough to warrant a "Real Trolley"... Which our dumb press has bought hook line and sinker. Take a hard look at the VEHICLE not the window dressing and what do you see?


You see this! THIS IS A POTATO CHIP TRUCK! Lay's, Wise, Charles, Humpty Dumpty and JACKSONVILLE TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY, we all have them, only we LIE about what they really are!


THIS IS A TROLLEY, a classic wood car 100 years old and still rolling...So what makes it a "Trolley"? For the unknowing, that thing on top of the long pole up top is a "Trolley Pole" and on it's end is a "Trolley Wheel" which picks up 600 volt DC from the overhead wire. Which is why these are "TROLLEYS" and NOT cable cars, or Potato Chip Trucks.


THESE ARE TROLLEYS, amazing how little they look like a potato chip trucks, be it a classic PETER WITT low floor classic on the right, or a newer CLRT car on the left. For the unknowing, that thing on top of the long pole up top is a "Trolley Pole" and on it's end is a "Trolley Wheel" which picks up 600 volt DC from the overhead wire. Which is why these are "TROLLEYS" and NOT cable cars, or Potato Chip Trucks.



OH LOOK, here comes the Jacksonville Potato Chip Truck "trolley Thing", NOT! This little unit is in Germany and is running through a parkway just like our old Trolleys used to do. LOOK MOM, NO CARS! NO GAS! ...and they told us in 1932 that buses were MORE flexible. Bet we bought that bridge in Brooklyn too, because they are still lying to us and we're still a bunch of parrots...

Ocklawaha
THE TRANSIT MONSTER

[JeffreyS]

Ock I will adjust my postings accordingly. 

[Steve]

Do the stops have route maps included for wayfinding?

There was a map on the trolly sign at the riverside Starbucks.  I don't know if the rest have maps. I will check.

The signs at each stop appear to be identical

[tufsu1]

Correction:  If webini is your standard worker, then maybe this will bring people downtown.  I hope it works either way.

read the article in today's paper....it mentions a couple who went to the Landing yesterday for the first time....and they went by trolley from Riverside

also, nobody really cares what the trolleys really are...other than Ock!

[Steve]

also, nobody really cares what the trolleys really are...other than Ock!

Uh, I don't know if I'd say that - I'm with Ock on that one

I think that if we were to install REAL trolleys, you'd have a lot of benefits that you wouldn't necessarily get with a trolley bus.  For example, one big one is the element of permanency - right now, if they want to change the route, they just do it.  With track, it's not that simple.

For example, John Porcari of the Maryland DOT states that "one of the advantages of fixed guideway - heavy or light rail - is that you can make a reasonable assumptions that stations will be there years from now".  This in turn creates economic development opportunities that would not previously be there.

Case in point - give me any example of a Transit Orinted Development around a BRT Station.  Now, give me an example of a TOD around fixed guide rail (you shouldn't have to look very hard, there is probably 25 on this site).

[Jason]

You're right Steve.  However, this is a teaser to guage the potential impact of a streetcar line along that route in the future.  Contrary to popular belief, the JTA IS studying the feasiblity of streetcar lines through the historic neighborhoods.  This is just the first step towards creating the buzz.

[Steve]

You're right Steve.  However, this is a teaser to guage the potential impact of a streetcar line along that route in the future.  Contrary to popular belief, the JTA IS studying the feasiblity of streetcar lines through the historic neighborhoods.  This is just the first step towards creating the buzz.

I know they are studying this - however, is a four hour a day trolley bus really enough to gauge permanent, fixed guide transit?  Maybe, but I'm not sure.

[thelakelander]

This is definately not a teaser to guage the potential impact of a streetcar.  Its well known that you can't use buses as a means to guage rail ridership levels.  The Riverside Trolley is just a vehicle that meets the needs of getting Riverside and Downtown workers back and forth for lunch.

[Jason]

Probably not, but it is a start.  Didn't mean to call you out either.  Of all the crap we all give the JTA it is good to be reminded that there are a few over there that are making the right moves.

[Steve]

Probably not, but it is a start.  Didn't mean to call you out either.  Of all the crap we all give the JTA it is good to be reminded that there are a few over there that are making the right moves.

Totally agree - while I'll be the first to slam JTA for doing something stupid, I'll be the first to give them a compliment when they do something right.  They definitely did a few things right with this one, particularly signage at the stops.

[Ocklawaha]

Why should we care if it's a PCT or a Trolley? Here's a statement from an old friend and publisher, by way of the official pages of the AMERICAN PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION ASSOCIATION APTA Website:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The New Electric Railway Journal

Real Streetcars Outdraw Fakes
Ed Strauss

Riders eagerly pay a dollar to ride Tucson's historic streetcar line while a rubber-tired "trolley bus" with a 25-cent fare gets hall the ridership.

Car 255 cost OPT $820 to buy but $27,000 to ship from Osaka, Japan. *(and we're sitting on an authentic subway-trolley conversion! OCK)

Starting on April 17, 1993, Tucson unwittingly began a test of whether riders prefer genuine streetcars or rubber-tired ersatz trolleys. So tar the electric choice seems to be well ahead. During May, the first full month of operation, three times as many riders paid four times as much to ride half as far in the newly restored rail line than they would have paid to ride m a modern “trolley” bus.

A ride on the historic line costs one dollar while the SunTran shuttle bus fare is twenty-five cents. The trolley line is only one mile in length while the bus route is about two miles and connects more activity centers including downtown Tucson and the convention center. Further discouraging riders, the streetcar only runs three days a week while the bus runs six days.

Although the streetcar duplicates the university end of the bus route, operating hours are such that Saturday daytime is the only period during the week that the two modes directly compete. Current streetcar hours are Friday, 6 P.M. to midnight; Saturday, 10A.M. to midnight; and Sunday, noon to 6 P.M. The dressed-up buses operate Monday through Saturday, daytime only.

Seasonal variation is blamed for cutting ridership from the May high of 4,227 to only 2,115 inJune. That is when Tucson’s hot summer weather began, keeping people inside. Also, the university; which supplied many of the riders, closed for the summer.

Back to the Past
The two restored streetcars that began operating in April were the first in Tucson since December 31, 1930. When the streetcar rails were covered over with asphalt on Tucson’s University Boulevard after the last car ran in 1930, no one thought that some day the very same rails would be uncovered and streetcar service would resume.

Service began on April 17 with much fanfare. Old Pueblo Trolley, Inc. was organized in 1983 to raise funds and enthuse volunteers to get a trolley running. It was not easy as W. Eugene Caywood would attest after his successful ten-year struggle as head of OPT. Although the project was quickly endorsed by both the city of Tucson and the state of Arizona, a bond issue failed in May, 1984. By then, however, a critical mass of enthusiasm had been brought together which kept the project in forward motion.

About a million dollars in aid, half from the state of Arizona and half from corporate donations, contributed to the effort. The state aid was intended as a light-rail demonstration. State Senator Peter Goudinoff believes it maybe possible to build light-rail lines in the Tucson area using San Diego’s system as a model. Caywood believes that if SunTran, the local transit agency; were to decide to initiate light-rail service, Old Pueblo Trolley would remain separate but share rails, such as in San Jose, California.

Car 10
In March 1985, a single-truck Birney Safety Car was leased from the Orange Empire Railway Museum in California. The former Pacific Electric car was very similar to those used by the old Tucson Rapid Transit Company. The leased car was numbered 10, the number of a 1918 TRTBirney that had been the most modern of Tucson’s twelve cars.

Many of the wooden parts were replaced as the frame, interior and roof were rebuilt. All mechanical and electrical components were replaced or refurbished. With all the effort by OPT volunteers and support received from other streetcar museums, Car 10 is now the most completely restored Birney Car operating on urban right-of-way in the U.S.

That right-of-way, all in city streets, consists of approximately a half mile on University Boulevard from the entrance to the University of Arizona to Fourth Avenue where the trolley route turns left to proceed another half mile to the end of the line at the car barn. The route is single track except for a short passing section at the Fourth Avenue-University Boulevard intersection.

Electric overhead was installed by volunteer linemen who were members of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, Local 1116, using equipment loaned by Tucson Electric Power, the local electrical utility. The overhead was designed by OPT vice president and electrical engineer Dick Guthrie with the advice and assistance of Galen Sarno of the San Francisco Municipal Railway.

OPT operates under an agreement with the city, requiting that all cars be equipped with horns and turn signals and that operators hold valid commercial driver licenses.

A Second Car
Deciding that more than one streetcar would be needed to provide reliable service, the OPT board of directors bought a second car in fully operable condition which was delivered from Osaka, Japan in November of 1992. The car, manufactured in 1953, arrived with Japanese advertising cards, all of which were still in place when the car entered service in Tucson. Although the car was built in Japan, it is a design based on cars built by Brill in Philadelphia in 1923.

Both cars have turned out to be quite reliable although car 10 did go into the shops later on opening day for an air leak. After repairs the next day the car has performed without breakdown. The two cars have been alternating assignments so that both are on the street about the amount same of time, although car 10 does not operate after 10 P.M. because its noisy wheels and bearings might disturb residents.

Currently, trolleys run only three days weekly. However, there are plans to expand both hours of service and route. The most likely route extension would be to continue on Fourth Avenue into the downtown transit center, adding about another mile of track, duplicating the route of the SunTran “trolley” bus and possibly replacing it.

Ed Strauss is publisher of Bus World magazine and a frequent contributor to The New Electric Railway Journal

You can NOT ride a Volkswagen Riverside to test the success of a train at the Trout River!
Ocklawaha

[JaxNole]

I also work at Fidelity and caught the trolley from BCBS to Five Points.  Ten of us boarded around 12:20 after waiting for 10 minutes and met another 14 passengers.  The stops were logical and convenient and we got off in front of Al's.  For our return trip, we boarded in front of Starbucks and were dropped off at 601 Riverside.  Tomorrow we head to The Landing.

Overall, everyone was excited.  Not only did the driver sound the trolley bell, but each ride allowed us to enjoy a break during the day and not bother with parking or traffic.  Plus, the $0.50 one-way fare doesn't begin until the 19th.

[WitchDoctor]

I'm a stickler about semantics, too. A trolley is nearly silent and definately doesn't leave a cloud behind. A real trolley is to trolley bus as Cadillac is to Chevette.

Bus routes are flexible, but the only flexible buses I know of can be found here: Slinky Bus