Soccer Thread

[Adam White]

Fulham relegated to the Championship. They just missed out on tying the record for quickest relegation. This is after spending £100 million over the summer buying players (many on the last day of the transfer window).

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/fulham-relegated-premier-league-loss-203633284.html

[JaxAvondale]

They have been terrible defensively and that is coming from a West Ham supporter.

[JaxJersey-licious]

As a relative pro soccer newbie, I was wondering if some of you more veteran aficionados could give me more insight on a concept I can't fully grasp: What happens to a team financially when they get relegated particularly like Fulham did after 1 year in the Premiership. So many questions...

How does it effect TV revenue? What about kit sponsorships and other revenue supports? Do big time players have incentives to be or not be relegated out of the Premiere League? Is their pay effected when they go to the Championship or League One and do some have the power to opt out when their team gets relegated?

How does attendance typically change when a team is no longer in the Premiership? Are ticket prices and season ticket commitments affected in any substantial way? And do team owners get some kind of cushion for all this potential lost revenues?

I understand that history and loyalty would be enough to keep a club going through good times and bad. But does it make any financial sense for an owner like Khan to own a team like this, spend all this money, and have this be a good investment given all the struggles this side has since he bought this team? Perhaps it's my North American sports mindset but I have a hard time picturing this working out for Khan at all, short or long term.

[Adam White]

As a relative pro soccer newbie, I was wondering if some of you more veteran aficionados could give me more insight on a concept I can't fully grasp: What happens to a team financially when they get relegated particularly like Fulham did after 1 year in the Premiership. So many questions...

How does it effect TV revenue? What about kit sponsorships and other revenue supports? Do big time players have incentives to be or not be relegated out of the Premiere League? Is their pay effected when they go to the Championship or League One and do some have the power to opt out when their team gets relegated?

How does attendance typically change when a team is no longer in the Premiership? Are ticket prices and season ticket commitments affected in any substantial way? And do team owners get some kind of cushion for all this potential lost revenues?

I understand that history and loyalty would be enough to keep a club going through good times and bad. But does it make any financial sense for an owner like Khan to own a team like this, spend all this money, and have this be a good investment given all the struggles this side has since he bought this team? Perhaps it's my North American sports mindset but I have a hard time picturing this working out for Khan at all, short or long term.

I can't be certain about the arrangements in other leagues, but in the case of the Premier League, teams that are relegated get a set number of parachute payments over the course of the next season to help them cope. It gives them an advantage (at least theoretically). TV revenues are definitely missed out on - they don't televise Championship football in the UK and even if they do it on specialty channels or overseas, the revenues are nothing like what is available via Sky and BT Sport.

[JaxAvondale]

Fulham would likely sell some players in order to balance the books but player development is key.

[JaxJersey-licious]

I appreciate the clarifications. Also wondering about a team like Fulham spending all this money on players only to move down from the EPL after one year, is this unprecedented? How often does this happen to English soccer teams?

[Adam White]

I appreciate the clarifications. Also wondering about a team like Fulham spending all this money on players only to move down from the EPL after one year, is this unprecedented? How often does this happen to English soccer teams?

I don't know for certain, but I believe it is unusual for a newly-promoted team to spend that much. Most probably couldn't afford it. To put it in perspective, Fulham were third in terms of spending at the end of the summer transfer window. They were only outspent by Chelsea and Liverpool.

Usually where you end up in the league is (somewhat) a function of how much you spend. That clearly wasn't the case with Fulham this year. Based on the plans to renovate and expand the stadium, it would seem Khan wants to make Fulham a bigger name in English soccer. I don't know if he is going to succeed. I'd not be surprised to see him sell the team in the next few years.

[CityLife]

As a relative pro soccer newbie, I was wondering if some of you more veteran aficionados could give me more insight on a concept I can't fully grasp: What happens to a team financially when they get relegated particularly like Fulham did after 1 year in the Premiership. So many questions...

How does it effect TV revenue? What about kit sponsorships and other revenue supports? Do big time players have incentives to be or not be relegated out of the Premiere League? Is their pay effected when they go to the Championship or League One and do some have the power to opt out when their team gets relegated?

How does attendance typically change when a team is no longer in the Premiership? Are ticket prices and season ticket commitments affected in any substantial way? And do team owners get some kind of cushion for all this potential lost revenues?

I understand that history and loyalty would be enough to keep a club going through good times and bad. But does it make any financial sense for an owner like Khan to own a team like this, spend all this money, and have this be a good investment given all the struggles this side has since he bought this team? Perhaps it's my North American sports mindset but I have a hard time picturing this working out for Khan at all, short or long term.

Teams that don't have sugar daddy owners like Khan that get relegated very often have serious financial issues, some multi-year Premier League mainstays like Portsmouth, Blackburn, Leeds, and Wigan had a lot of turmoil after relegation. Leeds were one of the best teams in England in the late 90's/early 2000's and have spent time in the 2nd and 3rd division since 2004 (they may finally come back up this season); Wigan and Portsmouth were very similar to Fulham performance wise as perennial mid-lower table EPL teams and both have been disasters since relegation; Blackburn won the EPL title in 1995 and have been in the 2nd division since 2012.

Khan is going to get absolutely raked over the coals financially this summer. Most players have relegation clauses in their contracts that allow them to be sold for reduced fees or for free if their team is relegated. Khan will have to sell expensive buys like Seri, Mitrovic, Mawson, and Anguissa at pennies on the dollar, and will also struggle to keep young talent like Sessegnon. He's going to do another major rebuild next year, and even then getting back to the EPL is no guarantee.

His ownership of Fulham has been an absolute disaster.

[JaxJersey-licious]

So if Khan's ownership of the Jaguars can be seen as a success (at least monetarily) and his running of Fulham the opposite I'm curious how things will turn out with his pro wrestling league.

[Adam White]

So if Khan's ownership of the Jaguars can be seen as a success (at least monetarily) and his running of Fulham the opposite I'm curious how things will turn out with his pro wrestling league.

He might be making money on Fulham - I have no idea. And I would argue that his ownership of the club hasn't been completely terrible. While it could be argued that he tinkered a bit much in his first season (firing managers left and right) - and possibly causing the club to be relegated - he did manage to eventually get them promoted (he almost managed that in their second season in the Championship). And the Premier League is a tough league to survive in - it's not at all unusual for a newly-promoted club to be relegated at the end of their first PL season. Yeah, he spent a LOT of money - third most in the league behind perpetual big-spending Chelsea and Liverpool. I have no idea if bears much or any responsibility for who that money was spent on. That said, he did fire two managers this season.

Fulham have never won anything of consequence and have spent long periods outside of the first division/premier league in the past. So while they had a few years of stability, it could hardly be argued that Fulham under Khan are anything other than Fulham in general.

[CityLife]

Sorry Adam, but Khan's ownership has been a disaster.

Fulham were in the EPL for 13 consecutive seasons prior to Khan's purchase. They only flirted with relegation in 2 of those seasons (07 and 08). Their average finish was 9th in the 5 seasons prior to Khan's purchase (09-13). They were becoming an entrenched mid table club. Khan takes over and they were immediately relegated the following season. They would have likely languished in the Championship permanently based on the moves Khan made. Fortunately, for Khan, Fulham's youth program had a generational talent in Ryan Sessegnon who had been at the club since he was 8. Sessegnon pretty much carried them to the EPL as a 17 year old.

Khan has spent more money than Wolves in the last 5 years and they are in 8th place with almost triple the point total of Fulham. So it can be done, especially with the type of money Khan has spent. He's going to have to spend a lot of his own money to right the ship and bring Fulham up. Fortunately, the guy is loaded and it's probably just play money for him and his son.

[Adam White]

Sorry Adam, but Khan's ownership has been a disaster.

Fulham were in the EPL for 13 consecutive seasons prior to Khan's purchase. They only flirted with relegation in 2 of those seasons (07 and 08). Their average finish was 9th in the 5 seasons prior to Khan's purchase (09-13). They were becoming an entrenched mid table club. Khan takes over and they were immediately relegated the following season. They would have likely languished in the Championship permanently based on the moves Khan made. Fortunately, for Khan, Fulham's youth program had a generational talent in Ryan Sessegnon who had been at the club since he was 8. Sessegnon pretty much carried them to the EPL as a 17 year old.

Khan has spent more money than Wolves in the last 5 years and they are in 8th place with almost triple the point total of Fulham. So it can be done, especially with the type of money Khan has spent. He's going to have to spend a lot of his own money to right the ship and bring Fulham up. Fortunately, the guy is loaded and it's probably just play money for him and his son.

Maybe - but Fulham had a bad season and got relegated. It happens - particularly with unspectacular mid-table teams. I'm not sure I can blame Khan for that. Yeah, he sacked a few managers - but I can't say with any certainty that had he kept Jol (for example) things would've changed. It's worth considering that while Jol had a fairly solid track record prior to joining Fulham, he was really struggling to win matches that season.

And while their next season almost ended in relegation from the Championship (!), Khan stopped the rot and almost got them promoted to the PL the following year. And while Sessegnon is (supposedly) a good player, I'd be shocked if any team was able to gain promotion based solely on the contributions of a fullback 

Fulham's 13 years in the Premier League is a blip on their overall record. And that's probably because they had a billionaire owner for those years. Yeah, Khan has more money than Al-Fayed, but spending money doesn't always equal success. 

[JaxJersey-licious]

So what is the vibe from actual Fulham fans about Khan's ownership compared to the previous owner? We're they just glad to get rid of him or was there any trepidation about the ownership change at the time?

[Adam White]

So what is the vibe from actual Fulham fans about Khan's ownership compared to the previous owner? We're they just glad to get rid of him or was there any trepidation about the ownership change at the time?

I have no idea - I rarely interact with Fulham fans. I used to work with a guy who supported Fulham, but he left the company before Khan took over, I think.

Fulham

Craven Cottage: posh fans called Hugh stand next to tourists who can't believe how lucky they are to watch a football match this close to the River Thames. Both types of Fulham fan are extremely quiet.

^I'd argue that they're more likely to be sitting than standing.

https://thetab.com/2016/04/25/football-fans-worst-87959

[pierre]

So what is the vibe from actual Fulham fans about Khan's ownership compared to the previous owner? We're they just glad to get rid of him or was there any trepidation about the ownership change at the time?

My interaction has been limited to social media. But from what I have seen, there is much more animosity towards Tony Khan than to Shad.