Blight committee ponders razing sound structures --

[sheclown]

Roberts Rules of Order should be followed at ALL subcommittee meetings.  We, as voting citizens of this city, should demand this.

[iloveionia]

Denise Lee quotes:
(She referred a lot to the need for neighborhoods organizing.)
(She kept asking about people's positions, are you for or against the legislation.)

"We are gonna demalize." (Yes, she made up that word.) (When Kay said she would be happy to be part of the committee if there would be no demolitions.)
"I'm asking you all to be respectful." (She cut Kay off several times during her presentation and was very rude.)
"This is a democracy." (Not sure what her definition of this is.)
"As elected officials we are elected to represent you. . . .but at the end of the day we have to do something." In response to Mr. Love's support of preservation.
"When things look nasty, nasty people appear." Referring to Moncrief area.
"Come on you all, let's work together." (when asked why now she is beginning to time comments, coincidently she is now listening to the folks who are opposed to the blight bill.)
"We are not demonstrating." (When folks clapped after Ms. Miller spoke.)
"Does the S just stand for Springfield" (When asking about the legitimacy of PSOS.)
"There is no question that I am open and objective." (When Ms. Pryor asked Ms. Lee to ALSO stay open minded.)
"That didn't happen." Regarding a zoning change and there is no way the city can do that.)
"We appreciate your comments. This is a democracy." (After Mr. Whisler spoke.)
"The crime that is going on in Jacksonville is out of control."

Lee's closing quotes:
"The thug and thugettes are shooting at the police."
"A thug is a thug is a thug."
"There are not two issues here."
"It's about abuse by landlords and investors."
"There's nothing wrong with vouchers."
"It is totally unfair what some of these homeowners have to do."
"I know I'm gonna get in trouble when I say this."
"They just a little lighter than me."
"We are elected officials."
"Organization is the key to any kind of success."
"This will not become personal."
"Now you know I cuss, but I did not cuss them out, actually they cussed me out."
"Don't take it personal."
"It's a community problem and that is how we have to think."
"No it ain't. I know it's bad grammar but that's how we have to think."
"Let's snitch. Let's call it like it is."
"Stop the festering now."
"We are not trying to tear down, tear down."
"Legislation has always been created by the people."
"So that's what we done."
"It'll start with us and end with us."
"I'm not running for nothing so I can say this."
"Y'all don't live over here."
"We are going to pass a piece of legislation that deals with this issue."
"If you act like a terrorist you ought to be treated like one."
"This has been a good meeting."
"We are one."

"There is a difference between homeowners and some renters." Mr. Washington
"People are afraid to sit on their front porches." Mr. Washington

"Crime is the issue." - Mr. Love

"Get it away from family housing" Mr. Allen (From 1500 block west 10th when referring to neighbors from Prisoners of Christ.)

"These buildings can be torn down so you don't have to reckon with it anymore." (Lady from Moncrief area, president from business association.)

"The criminal activity is different from the housing." Renee Fields, real estate agent
"Demolishing a home isn't going to solve everything." Ms. Fields
"Tearing down a home is not going to remove the issue." Ms. Fields

"Why are you interrupting me Ms. Lee" Ms. Miller, Myrtle Ave Assoc
"I would like to finish with my three minutes." Ms. Miller
"Our organization has been with working the city for 22 years." Ms. Miller (Upset that Lee kept saying neighborhoods were disorganized.)

"The crime everyone else is talking about is not the houses fault." Kim Pryor, PSOS

"What is preservation SOS" Council member Cresembi 
"It's a 501 c 3?" Cresembi
"Is it a Florida corporation?" Cresembi

Kim explained perfectly about PSOS.

"I don't appreciate derogatory info placed on the tax roll." Ms. McCoy
"I've been cited for not cutting the limbs on my palm trees."
"When I get the files they are altered." (Referring to the sunshine law requests.)

"No records have ever been altered." Mr. Prado, MCCD (referring to Ms. McCoy's property.)
"All violations are valid on the case." Mr. Prado

"If your only tool is a hammer your only problem must be a nail." Terry Whisler, Spfld (When referring to the problems with the ordinance.)
"You need more than a hammer." Mr. Whisler
"It's reckless and frankly lazy." Mr. Whisler

"There is no difference bw a dilapidated house in one neighborhood or one in a historic neighborhood, they must be dealt with." (CM Brown or Jones after Mr. Whislers comments.)

"Please don't tear down these houses." Alison Good, Spfld
"Historic Preservation commission issued a letter this morning said don't do it." Ms. Good (She then reads a portion of the letter.)
"These neighborhoods can be revitalized." Ms. Good

"We've been targeted repeated by code enforcement." Lane Manis, Spfld
"Two difference issues here, crime and houses." Ms. Manis
If you keep tearing down houses you will not have a city any more." Ms. Manis
"We can be a destination." Ms. Manis
"I don't believe we can tear down out way out of crime." Ms. Manis

"The last thing I want to see in my neighborhood is empty lots." Joe Markusic PSOS
"I've never had a house point a gun at me or sell me drugs, it's the people in it." Mr. Markusic

Roberts Rules for Dummies is available on Amazon, it's needed.
Long unorganized meeting. Phew.

[Noone]

Roberts Rules of Order should be followed at ALL subcommittee meetings.  We, as voting citizens of this city, should demand this.

+1

[sheclown]

There's a lot of discussion about defining "historic" for the purposes of this ordinance.  I suggest the city look to the Florida Building Codes "Existing Buildings" Chapter 11 section 1101 which has a definition available:

HISTORIC BUILDING.
For the purposes of this code and the referenced documents, an historic building is defined as a building or structure that is:

1. Individually listed in the National Register of Historic Places; or

2. A contributing property in a National Register of Historic Places listed district; or

3. Designated as historic property under an official municipal, county, special district or state designation, law,
ordinance or resolution either individually or as a contributing property in a district; or

4. Determined eligible by the Florida State Historic Preservation Officer for listing in the National Register of Historic Places, either individually or as a contributing property in a district

http://www.ecodes.biz/ecodes_support/free_resources/2010Florida/ExistingBuilding/PDFs/Chapter%2011%20-%20Historic%20Buildings.pdf

[thelakelander]

^Thanks for sharing.  It seems that #4 applies best for neighborhoods that aren't official historic districts.

[sheclown]

Correct --  it also involves some investigation.

Homes 50 years or older would need to be reviewed by the historic planning department and perhaps the state historic department to determine if they are, indeed, eligible BEFORE released for demolition. 

It can't be anything done quickly, or without hiring additional historic planners, to insure significant structures that are not presently landmarked are not forever lost.

[sheclown]

If a mothballed structure is not "unsafe", then it must be deemed safe.

So, why isn't the city mothballing these structures, at least the ones over 50 years?  Making them safe? And preserving the city's housing assets?

[urbanlibertarian]

Why aren't the property owners mothballing them?  Are there city funds set aside to mothball historic structures?  If not, where would the money come from?

[strider]

When you ask where the money to mothball comes from, should you not also be asking where the money to demo comes from?  In addition, it should not be just Historic structures, it should be an option available to all of Jacksonville.

The up front cost to Mothball is less than to properly demolish a house.  Then add back in the fact that a house will then remain on the tax rolls and eventually be lived in again and the savings between a basic demolition with the requirement of maintaining the empty lot and eventually giving it away or having a house lived in and property taxes paid plus the tax income from rehabbing it and the savings to the city and the community becomes sizable.

[ChriswUfGator]

Why aren't the property owners mothballing them?  Are there city funds set aside to mothball historic structures?  If not, where would the money come from?

The same place the money to demolish them comes from. The question isn't whether we're going to spend money, that's going to happen either way. The question is minimizing the negative impact for the rest of us who don't want to live in an urban wasteland.

[JaxUnicorn]

Why aren't the property owners mothballing them?  Are there city funds set aside to mothball historic structures?  If not, where would the money come from?

The same place the money to demolish them comes from. The question isn't whether we're going to spend money, that's going to happen either way. The question is minimizing the negative impact for the rest of us who don't want to live in an urban wasteland.

AMEN Chris, AMEN!!

[sheclown]

Today's drama at the blight committee meeting resolves around the mayor who scheduled a cleanup without going through the blight committee

[sheclown]

"Now cressembeni is asking if solid waste or public works is involved.  Cress doesnt know if its gross incompetence or intentional.  He's grilling jeff foster.  Foster is in trouble for not telling."

[sheclown]

"The committee is stating that they are now in a position of publically stating the entire city staff is colluding against the council members"

[sheclown]

"All the council members are mad and think it was intentional.  They are promising an investigation into how long city staff has known."