Improvements in Riverside's 5 Points aim to attract foot traffic

[thelakelander]

A new plan for Five Points will be revealed next week:

Ashley Gurbal Kritzer
Reporter- Jacksonville Business Journal

Neighborhood advocates in Riverside's 5 Points are hoping to partner with the City of Jacksonville on a revamp of some streets and sidewalks that would improve pedestrian safety, traffic flow and access to businesses.

Riverside Avondale Preservation Inc. hired a team of consultants to tackle the project: Tocknell Planning Services LLC, EnVision Design + Engineering and Flagg Design Studio LLC. The team's study included three major intersections — Park and Post streets, Post and Margaret and the Five Points intersection — and three streetscapes: Lomax Street between Park and Oak streets and two stretches of Margaret Street.

A flashing yellow traffic light in the middle of the five-point intersection often confuses drivers and is difficult for pedestrians to navigate.

The plans will be officially unveiled at Riverside Avondale Preservation's annual meeting Feb. 27.

Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/02/18/mprovements-in-riversides-5-points.html

[Josh]

Interested to see the plans for the 5-point intersection itself since the roundabout idea is out.

[peestandingup]

Hope they do something for cyclists. Between the road & the parked cars, there's no room & you're either forced to ride with the traffic or on the sidewalk. Both of which can be sketchy.

[Kerry]

Maybe they could give back-in angled parking a try.

[Dog Walker]

The 5 Points intersection is a tough one.  There is just no way to fit a roundabout into it.

One brilliant suggestion that came from one of the public meetings was to make Lomax one-way away from the 5 Points intersection for one block to reduce the number of possible traffic combinations into the intersection itself.

All of the design aims to slow and smooth the flow of traffic in all of the nearby intersections and make pedestrian crossings shorter and safer.

The preliminary plans have some really clever ideas in them.

[Josh]

One brilliant suggestion that came from one of the public meetings was to make Lomax one-way away from the 5 Points intersection for one block to reduce the number of possible traffic combinations into the intersection itself.

That suggestion is mentioned in the article, and does sound like an awesome idea. Larger sidewalks and potentially some greenscaping would do wonders for that block.

[Transatlantic]

I never really thought traffic from Lomax was much of a problem.  Merchants and restaurant owners on Lomax would probably go nuts if you tried to flip that block to one-way.

The greater issue is that the Park & Post light gets congested and that congestion backs up into the 5 Points intersection.  As with everywhere in Riverside, the problem is usually that someone wants to turn left and makes everyone behind them sit through an entire cycle before moving.

Then I suppose there's the issue that people approaching 5 points on Park Street have no idea what they're doing, and will usually come to a halt as they ascertain the what they are supposed to do.  This causes congestion that backs up into the Park/Post intersection.  I'm not sure how you fix that, other that installing signs that literally say "Don't STOP!"

I think it will be difficult to simultaneously make the area more pedestrian friendly and gridlock-free.  The more lights and crosswalks you add, the more traffic is going to grind to a halt.

[ChriswUfGator]

Please let's not start 1-waying streets, or place any other structural barriers to the positive user experience that's presently fostering economic expansion over there. It's working, the wisest thing we can do is leave it alone.

[Dog Walker]

Pedestrian traffic in the area his increased threefold because of the success of the area.  The plans first goal is to make them safer.  The plan should also make car traffic flow more smoothly through all of the intersections but at a lower speed.  There is some really clever design in it.

Drivers should learn to move to the middle of an intersection while waiting to turn left so that the people behind them can go around.  Then even if the light changes before there is a break in on-coming traffic the turn can be completed and the intersection cleared.

[ChriswUfGator]

That's what they said downtown. Ultimately the parking restrictions, 1-way streets, and confluence of factors that created a hassle for the end user led to its decline and continued languishment long after other urban cores have since become popular again. So much so that we have town center, a replica downtown (but without paid parking, one-way streets, etc.) that serves the function downtown used to serve, without the hassles and negative end-user experience.

5 points is working as designed, this is only one man's opinion obviously, but considering it's experiencing a resurgence I'd vote to leave it alone. We have a long history of trying to fix success around here.

[ben says]

5 points is working as designed, this is only one man's opinion obviously, but considering it's experiencing a resurgence I'd vote to leave it alone. We have a long history of trying to fix success around here.

Couldn't agree more.

Leave 5 Points alone.

It's finally getting it's "groove" back...let it lie.

On another note (and I don't necessarily think this is a viable option)--it would be cool if we had a pedestrian-only area of Jax. I.E., making it so you can't drive thru 5 Points.

[ben says]

On topic, as others have mentioned, the 5 point intersection wouldn't be that bad if people knew how to use it. How about some signs leading to the intersection that give some guidance for non locals and people just unfamiliar with a 5 way inteersection.

Yep.

[scaleybark]

I think it is a bad idea to turn Lomax to a one-way street.  That will simply confuse people.

I once lived in a town with a 5-way intersection similar to 5 points.  They resolved the traffic flow using traffic lights.  Essentially, the intersection was treated as a traditional 4-way intersection, with an additional side street emptying into it.  The heavily traveled roads were governed by the 4-way signals, and operated like a regular 4-way intersection.  The 5th street would be kept on red, with no turns, while the other 4 streets went through their signal cycles.  If a car approached on the 5th street, eventually all of the other 4 streets would turn red, and the 5th street would have use of the intersection.

In 5 points, Margaret and Park street would form the 4-way intersection, and Lomax would be governed by the side-street light.

There was one intersection of roads that resulted in a sharp angle.  They installed a no U-turn sign to handle that.  In 5-points, a no U-turn sign between Park and Margaret street would probably help the intersection work more smoothly.

[Tacachale]

I can't wait to see the designs. I'm surprised there aren't more accidents at the 5 points intersection.

[Josh]

On topic, as others have mentioned, the 5 point intersection wouldn't be that bad if people knew how to use it. How about some signs leading to the intersection that give some guidance for non locals and people just unfamiliar with a 5 way inteersection.

You have a lot more faith in signage and the abilities of the average driver. Case in point: I-10 East into the I-95 split.