What we can learn from the Atlanta disaster

[Captain Zissou]

Sorry that I'm sending this from my phone, but I thought the following article was very enlightening. 

http://mobile.politico.com/iphone/story/0114/102839.html

The article describes what factors of urban development contributed to the disaster in ATL this week. While we have consolidated with our county to form a more unified government, Jacksonville is guilty of many of the same things as the Atlanta metro. Our love of sprawl and refusal to take transit seriously will eventually come back to haunt us, regardless of a natural disaster.  I hope this starts a transit conversation in Atlanta and I hope Jacksonville's leaders are watching.

[Lunican]

I bet they conclude that the roads aren't wide enough.

[BoldBoyOfTheSouth]

Sorry that I'm sending this from my phone, but I thought the following article was very enlightening. 

http://mobile.politico.com/iphone/story/0114/102839.html

The article describes what factors of urban development contributed to the disaster in ATL this week. While we have consolidated with our county to form a more unified government, Jacksonville is guilty of many of the same things as the Atlanta metro. Our love of sprawl and refusal to take transit seriously will eventually come back to haunt us, regardless of a natural disaster.  I hope this starts a transit conversation in Atlanta and I hope Jacksonville's leaders are watching.

What Zissou said.



I completely agree.

[RMHoward]

What happened in Atlanta was not a disaster.  The tsunamis that hit Japan and Indonesia were disasters.  No one was killed in Atlanta right?  Was there a mass loss of property, beyond numerous fender benders?  No.  Maybe some injuries and lost revenue.  Its not a perfect world.   Lots of folks were inconvenienced for sure.  But to call it a disaster is laughable.  We aren't that soft are we?

[Lunican]

Maybe Atlanta just got a glimpse of their sprawly future. The Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come?

[tufsu1]

Maybe Atlanta just got a glimpse of their sprawly future. The Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come?

I don't know.  In many ways, Atlanta is less sprawly now than it has been in quite some time.  The area inside the Perimeter is densifying and investment is occurring in many core neighborhoods.  And a few somewhat walkable, mixed-use places are developing in the suburbs

Plus, an event like this might help focus those who have traditionally been opposed on the need for transportation options.

[simms3]

Atlanta was an economic disaster, not to the scale of how Sandy impacted NYC, but in a similar way.  Business in one of the world's largest economies (by GDP) virtually shut down for days.

From afar, it's a weird thing that happened.  That part of the SE through KY and VA is prone to "ice storms", which are different from snow storms.  I think people give Atlanta a little bit more of a hard time than it deserves, honestly.  2 inches of snow that melts 1-3 days later has typically not impacted the city in a meaningful way, at least when I lived there nearly 7 years and endured that tiny amount of snow plenty of times.  2010 saw an ice storm that was even more crippling (2 weeks), however, the timing was different and so the effects were different.  It began on a Thursday after rush hour in the "first week" after the holidays (Jan 7/8).  It basically just prolonged people's holiday breaks and caused no extra gridlock, panic, or physical damage, even though it snowed 8-10+ inches and subsequently froze over for far far longer.

I think people fail to realize that what happens in Atlanta is not a matter of snow, but of ice.  It will snow or sleet and remain around 30-35 degrees, maybe accumulate, then rapidly drop over an hour or two down to 5-15 degrees, basically turning slush/loose wet snow or "general wetness" into ice.  And it will remain ice for days.  I remember people ice skating to work in 2010, down all of the streets.  That's not snow, which you can cautiously drive on (and let's not forget that while Atlanta isn't mountainous, it's quite hilly - a problem that people in Chicago, NYC, CT, Boston, Cleveland, Buffalo, Minneapolis, etc don't have to necessarily deal with).  The New Yorkers and former Detroit refugees in Atlanta all have just as much of a hard time dealing with southern winter weather as the "unwashed natives" who "clearly don't know how to handle any of it".

I have a friend who just graduated from biz school in Philadelphia and just relocated to Atlanta, and in her words in a recent casual email, "I was completely unprepared for the severity of southern freeze."

In a hilly urban terrain with an ice problem, I think there is little that can be done.  Transit is the only solution, and transit and density will happen over time in cities today, but I doubt one off events force people to make it happen faster.  Strong hurricanes aren't warding off people from living right on the coasts (for instance).

[Overstreet]

Before now ........ back when I was up there........bosses called a snow day early and shut down. The forcast was bad Monday. They should have closed it down Monday night and not tried to get another day out of it.  The superintendent of schools, the bosses at the individual employers, etc. They just made a bad call.  Of course you have to remember that much of the area is not "Atlanta". It is a collection of municipalities. Most of I-285 on the east side of the loop for example is in Decatur and North Decatur. Not everyone in my contact list were stranded up there.

I remember being up there and having folks just not show up when the forcast was for ice or snow. Didn't sound like they shut it down early enough this time.

I know of one area , not Atlanta, where they closed the middle school in the morning, the highschool in the morning but kept the elementary schools open till 1pm. They should have closed it off Monday night.

Also the maintenance equipment for snow or ice removal is non-existant. That is why the one or two events per year are normally handled by shut downs.

[peestandingup]

Best explanation I've seen: http://gizmodo.com/why-the-south-fell-apart-in-the-snow-1511566912