Riverside Avondale Night Trolley Launch This Weekend

[mtraininjax]

Funding in jeopardy for weekend trolley

Currently the trolley averages 150 to 200 trips each weekend, but to continue as a viable public transportation option long term, trolley ridership needs to reach an average of 500 trips per weekend.

http://residentnews.net/2016/06/01/34395/

Sounds like the Trolley is about to die, yet again.....

[DrQue]

With more flexible options in Uber and Lyft I do not see the Trolley gaining consistent traction.

[jaxlore]

I love the trolley but I have to walk a half mile to catch it.  This is the same reason I stopped riding the bus when they removed my station on roosevelt. This is not a big deal if you have a group of friends together getting ready to make a night of it and your have plenty of time, but it is a big deal when you are running late to hit up a movie at sunray. They should think  about experimenting with the routes and routing through some of the residential areas and not just the main drags.

[JaxJersey-licious]

Sad to see the service no gaining as much traction as it has before especially now that they're operating every weekend instead of once a month. But I was wondering about any proposals to expand it to DT or at least to Brooklyn now that the area is full of new residents and businesses. 

I know Uber and Lyft has the possibility of cutting into the numbers potential transit riders, but if their insane surge pricing rules are anything like in my neck of the woods, having the option of the trolley late at night is a blessing.

[exnewsman]

not gonna work unless its operation is expansive, consistent and long-term enough to infiltrate the consciousness ie its an auto-response:  "going ____? oh, i'll just take the trolley"

getting there not going to happen without subsidy from the gubment.  a concept as popular around here as naming your kid Adolf.

so, trolley- maybe we try again in a few years?

Well the trolley went from one weekend a month to every weekend. The JTA enlisted local businesses on the route who have a stake in its success to sponsor the trolley. But the ridership still isn't there. When it launched it had a high of 1,900 for a weekend. More recently its been under 200. The route was improved. There is a new mobile ticketing option.  You can track the trolley on your phone so you don't have to wait around for it. Still no people.

[thelakelander]

Any thought on morphing the trolley into the proposed SW BRT route through Riverside? I believe the Flyer BRT is supposed to have late night service and operate at 10-15 minute headways. If you can find a way to get a stop at Five Points, Park & King and St Johns Avenue on its way from downtown to Orange Park, these districts are then connected with reliable everyday service. Plus that service would be paid for with federal and JTA money.



As it stands now, the proposed route will serve Five Points (stop 13) and Park & King (stop 12). However, the other stop (Stop 11) misses the Shoppes of Avondale by a few blocks.

[ProjectMaximus]

Obviously would kill the trolley but is this a good area for those golf cart taxis that have been sweeping the nation?

[mtraininjax]

Well the trolley went from one weekend a month to every weekend. The JTA enlisted local businesses on the route who have a stake in its success to sponsor the trolley. But the ridership still isn't there. When it launched it had a high of 1,900 for a weekend. More recently its been under 200. The route was improved. There is a new mobile ticketing option.  You can track the trolley on your phone so you don't have to wait around for it. Still no people.

Still no people? The issue isn't the route, its the plan, it sucks! There is no marketing plan, no strategy, nothing. I know most if not all of the sponsors of the trolley and have a lot of background info on it, the plan is terrible. The Beaches Trolley works because they had a plan for its execution. There are signs of where you can go to pick it up. They started with paper maps, and the trolley was at the stops with dedicated TIMES, it worked. People would rider it instead of driving, and the cops in Jax beach are true douches as they pull over anything for cause, so it was easier to ride the trolley there, signs of where to pickup.

Fast forward to Riverside Avondale, the only way you know where to go for the trolley is by looking at the myjax app. That is great, but what about grey-hairs, they ain't gonna look at an app to figure out where to pick up the ride. Give 'em paper. Give people the option. There are NO signs at any of the stops to know you can pickup the trolley HERE. One restaurant offers a deal for the trolley, another doesn't. There is no cohesiveness. Its a smattering here and there, but no real plan. Its terrible and a shame, because the trolley works at the beach, but not in Riverside Avondale.

From a friend's post about his experience trying to pickup a ride...

Oh, my gosh....I tried to use the trolley one night when I had been drinking. After waiting over 30 minutes at midnight I became an angry drunk and I pitched a fit on social media. (You know, sometimes drinking + smartphone = danger.) But, I will say that I find the trolley as it is now to have certain weaknesses. I have a lot to say about it: Of course it does not run frequently enough. And it seems to taper off towards the end of the night, when it is most needed. (I'm not saying that's when it would be "most used" but "most needed" -- as in getting ppl safely home who have decided to rely on the trolley.) The trolley is advertised as running 6pm til 2am, but that does not mean that a person can catch one at 2am (of course). 2am is probably the time the horses are put back in the barn. So, greater awareness of the last pickup at each location would be useful.

The person from RAP who replied to me said that I should have been using the App to track the trolley's movements. They said that RAP mentions the app in every post. I did not want to download a MyJTA app, not knowing how large it was and how long it would take, while I was not on wifi. What I wanted was the website with an embedded tracking map that has existed since the trolley was first launched, and I could not find it anywhere. The website [ http://trolley.jaxmob.com/ ] is unofficial, as far as I know; so I get that they promote the official MyJTA app.

But I think that you can also understand I only wanted a real-time map of where the trolleys were not some full-blown app developed by JTA that I had zero confidence in. Speaking of confidence, I did not feel much when I visited the trolley's official (?) website at  https://riversideavondalenighttrolley.com/ . The post on the front page is dated 2013. It has images of maps instead of interactive maps. Why can't the tracking map be embedded on the damn front page???! (You see this stuff makes me angry -- I just don't understand the attitude of people who defensively act like they have created something great when it's clear that it could be much better.)

I feel that the entire operation, from its Facebook presence to its other websites, are run like a PR campaign with useless promotional images rather than like a transportation provider. (To be fair, I'm talking about RAP's websites -- don't even get me started on how awful JTA's site is!) 

Basically, the trolley is an okay option for those who plan ahead, download the apps to their phones when it's convenient, and make sure that they arrive at the stop at the right time so that they do not have to wait over half an hour, alone, in the dark, with no confidence that they will ever be picked up. For anyone desiring flexible transportation options that enable them to have a carefree night out on the town I recommend Uber. I realize the contradiction in me saying, I don't want to download an app, and recommending Uber that is exclusively app-based. But it's one I already have and it works well. I will download the JTA app some time and try it out. My idea of good public transportation is that it should be pervasive and easy to use.

I'll end with an anecdote. A month or two ago I took the trolley. I had to get from 5 Points to CoRK, which is about 80% of the route's entire figure-8 loop. That was my peculiar choice, and I was in no hurry. When we approached the point where the line crosses itself, my driver tried honking and other things to get the attention of the driver of the trolley in front of us, to no avail. If I could have switched trolleys I would have cut my travel time considerably.

That raises several questions to me: There is no way for drivers to communicate with each other? Did they ever consider a central hub on the figure 8 where changes would be possible? By the way, due to lack of riders we finished the circuit early and sat idle at the farthest point, near Fishweir school, for several minutes while the driver waited for the right time to restart the loop -- poor planning! If the loops began and ended at an intersecting point that could be a hub.

The trolley to me is not very good public transit. A good trolley would mimic a real, physical trolley, with easily identified routes going in both directions, or at the very least offer more frequent service and the ability to change at a central hub.

DAMN!

[mtraininjax]

From Reliable sources....

Riverside Avondale Trolley has 6 months remaining to live, then it will be cancelled due to lack of ridership.

So use it, or lose it.

[Todd_Parker]

From Reliable sources....

... then it will be cancelled due to lack of ridership.

along with any hope of future fixed transit in Jacksonville

[thelakelander]

Keep your eyes out for this. It could reach Jax before any of the local proposals materialize....


http://i.imgur.com/ixuf0HO.jpg

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-dec-high-speed-rail-project-has-its-eye-jacksonville

[ChriswUfGator]

Problem with this has always been it doesn't adequately penetrate residential areas. Not to point out the obvious, but who's walking 15 minutes in 90-something degree heat, and 1/2 the time rain on top of it, to wait another 15 or 20 minutes on the trolley, to show up at the bar sweat-soaked. You could take the car in 5 minutes. If I didn't have to walk 8 blocks to use it maybe it'd have been useful, but I did so it wasn't. I kept trap shut about it until now, but when it goes from commercial area to commercial area, you still have that first leg from your house to the trolley to account for. The original trolley (streetcar) network worked because it connected residential to commercial, not commercial to commercial. The former is usable transportation, the latter is basically a novelty.

[Tacachale]

Whenever I've used it, the residential stops are the ones that are the least used.

[mtraininjax]

The Trolley is working at the Beach, it can work in Riverside Avondale, in fact, it really needs to work, because the trends are showing that we will see more restaurants, more issues with parking and zoning will always be an issue.

The Riverside Avondale Trolley can work if it does the following things:
1)   Increase riders – Summer is a bad time for riders, people leave, go on vacation, travel. And its hot to wait 15-20 minutes for a bus. But Seniors over 65 ride free with the Senior Pass, so market more to those who could ride for free
2)   Add signs of where the trolley stops. They have them at the beach, if nothing start with the locations at the Shoppes in Avondale and then along Margaret Street in Riverside, so people who frequent the area, see where the bus starts and stops. Gotta be more visible!
3)   Paper maps – not everyone wants a bloated app to view the stops. Advertise on the maps with local vendors.
4)   Increase Social Awareness. There is about $3500 coming in per month from sponsors, limited mostly to restaurants. Expand the program to allow for social members, those who may not be open during the trolley hours, but who are along the route or in the neighborhood. Make various membership levels.
5)   Allow dogs on the Trolley, on a leash. People take their pets with them to so many dog friendly and dog ready places in the neighborhood. Make it easier for well-behaved pets to go with owners.
6)   Offer businesses the right to pay for tickets a weekend, all rides are free thanks to a business who is picking up the tab.
7)   Offer the RAP members the ability to buy a monthly pass or a Summer/Seasonal pass. This does 2 things, it increases riders AND it increases RAP members, a win-win for the area.

We have to make this work, its something needed for the future. We cannot complain all the time that we could use Uber for less or that its too hot to wait for it. It does penetrate the residential areas, if you look at the map of where it runs, it is within a couple of blocks of a majority of the residents. Besides the American Heart Association says we could all use more exercise in our days, so why not walk a couple more blocks, meet some new neighbors and be a part of something great?!

[mtraininjax]

RA Trolley Nights program has been given another 6 months to show success. Lots of changes going to be happening, look for more information in the Resident or here. Did you know that the Beaches Trolley has no major sponsor, unlike Champion Brands who is a core sponsor. Lots of great and new ideas coming to help make it easier to get on and off, including the possibility of 3-circle routes that will connect to Brooklyn and maybe downtown. So stay tuned for more updates.