Email from CityCycle about Luminaria bike ride

[bencrix]

No need to invoke Dr. Venkman!

The issue is that pedestrians and bicyclists are increasingly second class citizens at an event (at least partially) conceived to show of some of Jacksonville's best urban fabric.

The large group of bikes is one of the years' most visible statements that our roads should be multimodal. So it is a shame that the metastacizing car culture of the event is sweeping that symbolism aside.

I think the issue should be acknowledged by those organizing the event (as well as those participating it) and creative solutions should be sought.

[Captain Zissou]

So mtrain is saying there are too many bikes, while others are saying too many cars? Let's all just stay home this year to avoid the anarchy. Better yet, how about a one in one out policy, so we can each enjoy the softly glowing paper bags in peace and quiet???

[peestandingup]

Hard to trust City Cycle, but he may be right. If that's the case & its grown that large, why not treat it as a parade & close down the streets?

Yeah, and the ambulance route crazies would be burning down Jim Love's house. Uh, not a good idea.

The issue isn't that bikers are a great part of the fun, its the fact that last year there were over 200 cyclists in that huge group. Imaging 200 people walking down a street, then add bikes, its chaotic. And then they weave in and out of traffic that is already backed up and Joe Blow is too busy throwing candy at his friend on the sidewalk and doesn't see number 185 in the pack and takes out the bike. The ambulances cant get through because someone had the bright idea to close down the streets in the area, and then Stephen proclaims that Avondale is not safe because cyclists cannot cycle the area without fearing for their life.

Basically dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!

I assume any barricades to regular auto traffic could be easily lifted for emergency vehicles by manning them with officers/personnel, just like in every other parade across the country does. Or am I just talking crazy??

[L.P. Hovercraft]

The issue isn't that bikers are a great part of the fun, its the fact that last year there were over 200 cyclists in that huge group. Imaging 200 people walking down a street, then add bikes, its chaotic.

I think it's truly an amazing sight to see so many bicyclists, young and old, athletes and amateurs alike riding freely at night in the middle of the streets(!) of Jacksonville without fear of being just another victim of vehicular homicide, even if it is just for one night a year.  Yes, you may get a few dirtpunks or massholes out there, but the majority of riders I've seen were pretty well behaved and polite.  It would be a sad state of affairs if the annual Luminaria night ride were shut down for safety concerns; fingers crossed that although City Cycle has declined to participate and lead the ride this year that lots of riders will still show up in front of E-Street at 6 pm for this joyously chaotic bike parade.

It could even be used as a teachable moment to create a share-the-road awareness for all the drivers that come out to look at the lights (which as others have already pointed out, is really the worst possible way to enjoy the neighborhood).

Critical Mass die-in in London: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6b4hFFE79-s

[mtraininjax]

I think the issue should be acknowledged by those organizing the event (as well as those participating it) and creative solutions should be sought.

Spoken like someone who has never been stuck in the mess of cars that creep along at 5 mph, while the cyclist zoom around cars at 20-30 mph. Nah, its not dangerous....

I assume any barricades to regular auto traffic could be easily lifted for emergency vehicles by manning them with officers/personnel, just like in every other parade across the country does. Or am I just talking crazy??

This event is not a parade, there is no need for police presence to block roads, as the event has grown in stature, more people come to the neighborhood, by car, to participate. No need to burden RAP with expensive offduty police officers. I'd say you are talking a wee bit crazy.

It could even be a used as a teachable moment to create a share-the-road awareness for all the drivers that come out to look at the lights (which as others have already pointed out, is really the worst possible way to enjoy the neighborhood).

How do you teach share-the-road when traffic in cars crawls at 5 mph and cyclists are getting beaned in the head by kids throwing candy at people? Why not just break out the baseball bats and clobber the unsuspecting cyclists? Is this event the best place to have a swarm of 200+ cyclists weaving in and out of traffic crawling along the roadway? Why not just add 200 cyclists to a Mardi Gras Parade? That is the speed of the traffic in Avondale on this night. Kudos to City Cycle for realizing this is a dangerous night to be riding on major roads in the area.

[ChriswUfGator]

Why should RAP have to pay for police? It's a public event in a public place, JSO should provide whatever police presence is necessary to make sure it's smooth and orderly. This is what our taxes pay for.

[bencrix]

Spoken like someone who has never been stuck in the mess of cars that creep along at 5 mph, while the cyclist zoom around cars at 20-30 mph. Nah, its not dangerous....

You are mostly correct... As many have already noted, the best way to experience this neighborhood event (has been) is on foot / on a bike. However, the pleasure of the event is increasingly tempered (threatened) by frustrated motorists like yourself. There is a need for balance.

As for bikes moving at 20-30 mph, you may have confused Luminaria with Tour de France (i.e. spoken like someone who hasn't spent much time on a bike / too much time in a car).

[Tutankhamun]

No need to burden RAP with expensive offduty police officers. I'd say you are talking a wee bit crazy.

Exactly.  RAP exists to impose burdens, not to bear them.  Suggesting otherwise is lunacy.

[mtraininjax]

Why should RAP have to pay for police? It's a public event in a public place, JSO should provide whatever police presence is necessary to make sure it's smooth and orderly. This is what our taxes pay for.

Yeah, that's not how it works here....... but we should try it when we create utopia.

[bencrix]

I'm not sure there is an obvious / clearly feasible solution along the lines of police / parade routes / etc., but these should be explored.

RAP certainly raises funds from this event and they clearly have a claim on advocating for quality of life in the neighborhood, so they have a "dog in the fight."

Perhaps the most effective approach would be for neighborhood organizations and promotors to raise this issue and campaign for folks to enjoy the event on foot and on bike / discourage use of cars.

Beyond that, provisions could be made to facilitate parking on the periphery of the event and provide access to transportation to the center.

It seems to me that actions like this could both improve the visitor experience and boost the prospect for commerce during the event.

[mtraininjax]

yawn

Pot....kettle...black....

Perhaps the most effective approach would be for neighborhood organizations and promotors to raise this issue and campaign for folks to enjoy the event on foot and on bike / discourage use of cars.

The desired intent of the Avondale Riverside Trolley is to do just that! In fact this Sunday there will be trolleys in the procession, rented out by local citizens to have groups of people see the lights around the area, instead of using cars. So there is some progress in this fight against the dastardly use of automobiles.

With regard to commerce, not many shops stay open on Sunday night, as this is really about the neighborhood, not the shops, they had their fun last weekend in Christmas in Avondale, which I heard was a complete blowout of business, very, very well received. Yes, the merchants did close down St. Johns Avenue and they did have to band together to pay for the off duty police, the police were not  free as some might think....

[L.P. Hovercraft]

This event is not a parade, there is no need for police presence to block roads, as the event has grown in stature, more people come to the neighborhood, by car, to participate. No need to burden RAP with expensive offduty police officers. I'd say you are talking a wee bit crazy.

If the Riverside/Avondale Luminaria is getting too dangerous and chaotic for bicyclists or pedestrians in arguably the most pedestrian and bike friendly neighborhood in the city due to all of the non-local auto traffic, why NOT just make this an official Christmas parade and bring a bit of order to the anarchy? 

I'm certainly no expert on parade planning and logistics, but lots of cities larger AND smaller than Jacksonville have them every year without too much fuss.  Close off some streets for a parade route, have a few JSO officers on hand to keep the peace, maybe a fire/rescue crew on standby in case anyone gets hurt.  If people want to participate in the parade and get creative with trailers and floats, why not have a nominal entry fee on a sliding scale based on the size of the vehicle or the amount of noxious fumes expelled--$25 for trucks, $20 for cars, $15 for lawn tractors, $10 for bikes, $1 for walkers, dogs and babies are free.  Any proceeds can go to pay for clean up.  Like a 5K, you get a registration number and sign a waiver to abide by certain rules (no open containers, no throwing candy, no driving faster than 5 mph, etc.).  Have the bike contingent start it, followed by the slower walkers, then car/truck floats.  Finish up with the mayor and Santy Claus on a big float waving to the crowd.  Bam--instant civic pride. 

Ideally it would start or finish downtown instead of Riverside/Avondale, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

[mtraininjax]

this an official Christmas parade

The event is not a parade, if it were a parade, you would need to include every street in Riverside and Avondale, as every street has luminarias on them in some facet.

The cars, pedestrians, cyclists, dogs and cats that weave through the fabric of the neighborhood for this one night at 5 mph or less, make it seem as if it is a parade, hence the reason why JSO are not used to block off streets, instead some neighbors might do this, but as you have seen from Christmas in Avondale, if you park enough people on Pine Street, you only have room for 1 car down the middle and this is enough of an incentive to avoid the street entirely.

The event is really about the neighborhood, why should we change it and call it a parade when its just a show of pride and respect for the area? San Marco does it as do other neighborhoods or HOAs, nothing new about this one, only the fact that it grows and grows, last year I think they said they sold 30,000 bags worth. A lot of candles, sand and white paper bags.

[L.P. Hovercraft]

this an official Christmas parade

The event is not a parade, if it were a parade, you would need to include every street in Riverside and Avondale, as every street has luminarias on them in some facet.

The cars, pedestrians, cyclists, dogs and cats that weave through the fabric of the neighborhood for this one night at 5 mph or less, make it seem as if it is a parade, hence the reason why JSO are not used to block off streets, instead some neighbors might do this, but as you have seen from Christmas in Avondale, if you park enough people on Pine Street, you only have room for 1 car down the middle and this is enough of an incentive to avoid the street entirely.

The event is really about the neighborhood, why should we change it and call it a parade when its just a show of pride and respect for the area? San Marco does it as do other neighborhoods or HOAs, nothing new about this one, only the fact that it grows and grows, last year I think they said they sold 30,000 bags worth. A lot of candles, sand and white paper bags.

If it quacks like a parade and walks like a parade, why not just make it official and call it a parade? 

City Cycle is right though--something probably needs to be done before some granny or young kid looking at the pretty lights gets run over and killed by some doofus in a 4x4 not paying attention because he's throwing candy out the window.

[mtraininjax]

If it quacks like a parade and walks like a parade, why not just make it official and call it a parade?

Why don't you create the Festivus Parade, we will in turn follow you....seems fitting since a man has created a pole of PBR cans in the DC Capital Rotunda, seems only fitting. I love a good parade.