North Korea Releases American Tourist/Korean War Vet

[I-10east]

North Korea released 85 year old American Merrill Newman. He was pulled off a plane Oct 26 in Pyongyang, and held by the North Korean government for 5 weeks.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/06/21796718-north-korea-deports-us-war-veteran-merrill-newman?lite

[spuwho]

At this point why does any US citizen want to go to the DPRK? Is there some sense of wanting to be used as a tool?

[ben says]

I'm shooting to go there in 2015

[Dog Walker]

I'm shooting to go there in 2015

Why?...and why do you have to shoot someone to go?   

[I-10east]

At this point why does any US citizen want to go to the DPRK? Is there some sense of wanting to be used as a tool?

+1000

We have shaky relations with many countries that have US embassies; A definite no thanks for me to visit a country without one. Talk about someone who's very lucky to be free and alive.

[ben says]

Why?

Because it's there.

We have shaky relations with many countries that have US embassies; A definite no thanks for me to visit a country without one. 

Quite simply, I don't care who we have friendly/non-friendly relations with. It doesn't dictate the way I travel. My desire to see foreign places is not based on what the State Department thinks.

[thekillingwax]

You say that but you want to go to a place where every single facet of your visit is bugged, monitored and controlled by the state. You'll never see a lick of the "real" north korea. You will be funneling money into a regime that is carrying out horrifying atrocities on its own citizens, so I guess that's cool.

[Dog Walker]

Ben, Go to South Korea if you haven't been yet.  Seoul is a modern, exciting big city but go to some of the cities south of there.  The coast and country side are spectacular and the remnants of the old Silla kingdom are everywhere.  There is a spectacular Buddha in a cave on the southern coast that is over a thousand years old and carved in relief out of the rock.  You take a long hike up the mountain to get to it and the view out over the ocean is special.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seokguram     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silla

South Koreans are friendly, outgoing people too, if more gadget mad than we are.

[ben says]

You say that but you want to go to a place where every single facet of your visit is bugged, monitored and controlled by the state. You'll never see a lick of the "real" north korea. You will be funneling money into a regime that is carrying out horrifying atrocities on its own citizens, so I guess that's cool.

And by visiting Israel, you're funneling money into a regime that is carrying out apartheid on the Palestinians. And by going to China you're funneling money into a regime that's killing the environment and performing experiments on Falun Gong practitioners. And by visiting the US, you're funneling money into a military-industrial complex that is waging war in Afghanistan. Blah Blah blah. Any country you visit, you're giving them money, and they're going to use that money (in some way) for a cause you think if horrific. Yes, NK is a terrible place. That being said, I don't think NK is going to be around indefinitely. I want to witness (even the "tourist path") NK while it's still at its current state. Yeah, you're being shuffled around by "minders" in a "carefully regulated" tourist zone. You think I won't see that for what it is?

Traveling isn't always a statement on the current regime. My trip to Israel, a country I politically and socially abhor, wasn't an endorsement of their treatment of the Palestinians.

"The use of traveling is to regulate imagination by reality, and instead of thinking how things may be, to see them as they are." – Samuel Johnson

Ben, Go to South Korea if you haven't been yet.  Seoul is a modern, exciting big city but go to some of the cities south of there.  The coast and country side are spectacular and the remnants of the old Silla kingdom are everywhere.  There is a spectacular Buddha in a cave on the southern coast that is over a thousand years old and carved in relief out of the rock.  You take a long hike up the mountain to get to it and the view out over the ocean is special.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seokguram     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silla

South Koreans are friendly, outgoing people too, if more gadget mad than we are.

I'm trying to go to Seoul next Spring. If I can fit it in. Just booked a trip to Kiev, Ukraine, so free time to travel is getting smaller and smaller   

[thekillingwax]

I just don't think it's a great idea to visit a place that has massive death camps running. I'd also feel more than a little weird staying in an empty ghost city in relative luxury with the ruling elite while rural provinces endure famine so intense that people resort to cannibalism.

[ben says]

I just don't think it's a great idea to visit a place that has massive death camps running. I'd also feel more than a little weird staying in an empty ghost city in relative luxury with the ruling elite while rural provinces endure famine so intense that people resort to cannibalism.

As of today, China has very similar death camps running. Nobody is saying "don't go to China".....

These arguments are just moral equivalency talk...."X is bad, Y is worse, ergo don't go"

I'm not persuaded...

[BridgeTroll]

I'm with Ben on this one... I think it would be cool to witness an entire nation of brainwashed people... able to cry in sadness and rage in anger... on command.  Too cool to see a totalitarian / socialist / stalinist government.  It will be like travelling to another planet... 

[NotNow]

Travel, have fun.  You might want to expand your information base as well. 

[ben says]

I'm with Ben on this one... I think it would be cool to witness an entire nation of brainwashed people... able to cry in sadness and rage in anger... on command.  Too cool to see a totalitarian / socialist / stalinist government.  It will be like travelling to another planet... 

I sense heavy sarcasm...

If you're being serious...holy mother of god...we agree on something!

Travel, have fun.  You might want to expand your information base as well. 

Expanding the information base = traveling.

[BridgeTroll]

I'm with Ben on this one... I think it would be cool to witness an entire nation of brainwashed people... able to cry in sadness and rage in anger... on command.  Too cool to see a totalitarian / socialist / stalinist government.  It will be like travelling to another planet... 

I sense heavy sarcasm...

If you're being serious...holy mother of god...we agree on something!

Travel, have fun.  You might want to expand your information base as well. 

Expanding the information base = traveling.

I find myself sometimes sounding sarcastic even when I do not mean to.  I say go... and see and experience.  As long as you go with your eyes very wide open.  As our latest DPRK hostage found out... they can simply come and take you away and use you for whatever they wish.  We have no diplomatic ties... so an American cannot even come to visit you in detention.  A visit from Dennis Rodman is always a possibility...

To see and experience such a creepy and odd place will definitely give you one of the top spots at the "been there done that" table.  After DPRK... go to Mogadishu... we can trade stories...