JSO Cars to All Officers: Improved Safety or Wasted $$$??

[JayBird]

JSO posted a pic of their new Ford Police Interceptors that they are testing out to shift from the Chevy models that have been purchased in the past few years. This brings to mind something that I've wondered and couldn't find an existing thread on here about (if one exists, please let me know and maybe a moderator can move it over there). In all the places I've lived the public safety and police budgets are always the topic of much debate, and it is of no surprise that Jacksonville and the surrounding areas have the same issues. What is surprising to me is the amount of money that the JSO, CCSO, and SJSO put into vehicles and maintenance. This is due to every sworn officer assigned to patrol being provided with a patrol vehicle that is solely theirs to use. Now I understand that some types of positions within the department need this (K-9, Dive Team, Detectives, perhaps SWAT members and others) but does seeing three JSO sitting at Publix on Baymeadows while the off duty officers do their food shopping really increase public safety?

On my street there is a state trooper who has a big Black and Tan truck that he keeps at home when off duty to carry him and his police dog around northeast Florida. And yes, I do feel safer when I come home at night and see that truck sitting here because I fall to the misconception that if a burglar sees the truck, he will go elsewhere. (This is untrue, as there are several reports of burglaries happening to cops houses or their direct neighbors while unmanned vehicles were visible.) However, regardless of my personal feelings, is that really the best use of municipal funds? When you consider that if they have an 8-hr shift shift rotation one car can be used for every 2-3 officers that seems to be a huge area of cost savings. And I understand that when the officers use the vehicles for personal, off-duty business they are suppose to log it and compensate the city accordingly, but is there a checks and balance system in place for these types of things?

What do you think? I believe the initiative was started in Indianapolis and Peyton and Glover brought it to Jax and I believe it is a prevalent issue in most counties in Florida (counties, I believe most cities rotate vehicles) so it seems that now it is just a business as usual approach, graduate academy and get your badge, gun, and car. But has anyone noticed a marked difference in crime from before this was regular? Or does anyone know of studies or data showing it to be the most beneficial use of resources?


http://instagram.com/p/f-JGO8AxXX/

[strider]

Isn't the idea of allowing an officer to use a vehicle is that he is essentially on call all the time? At least that is the only thing that makes sense, otherwise, yes, why not allow cars to be used on multiple shifts?  Is there a study that says it costs more due to higher maintenance and replacements? When I drive by some stations, it seems like a lot of cars are parked , it that because some cars are used by more than one or the officers that never leave the station (like a desk Sargent?) are also issued cars? Frankly, I think it would be interesting to compare stats from walking a beat , bikes and horses to single officers driving around as sometimes the way it is seems like the police don't and possibly can not prevent crime, all they can do is report it. How they perform their patrols may be the only thing that makes a difference in that.

Also, I thought the only activity that they have to pay for the cars is off duty work? If using it to buy groceries requires a payment, one would think the only sensibly way would be each officer gets an auto deduct for it like a salesman would. IE, he pays taxes on the value as if it was part of his regular pay.

[JayBird]

^ I am not 100% positive, but have been told all officers that are assigned to Patrol Division and most assigned to Investigations receive their own vehicle (Do we have any JSO officers here?) and that the cars we see at DT HQ and subdivision stations are officers doing paperwork, processing evidence/offenders, or spare cars for use.

As for on duty all the time, no they are not. When off duty they may use vehicles but mileage is supposed to be reimbursed (how one can really tell if the 25 miles off-duty used from the 150 on-duty mileage each day idk), and the simple solution that other cities use when they need extra police - a mass transit or school bus that picks up officers from there assigned station and takes them to the situation they are needed at.

However, some like I mentioned initially can be called to duty and those should have vehicles to do their job quickly and efficiently.

[JayBird]

Also got a DM from forum member who believes that some of Community Service Officers receive their own vehicle (traffic cops-yellow lights and bright safety vests) ... Can anyone confirm is that true? In clay county they have them but those cars are switched among officers each shift and stay at substations when not in use.

[simms3]

JSO posted a pic of their new Ford Police Interceptors that they are testing out to shift from the Chevy models that have been purchased in the past few years.  What is surprising to me is the amount of money that the JSO, CCSO, and SJSO put into vehicles and maintenance. This is due to every sworn officer assigned to patrol being provided with a patrol vehicle that is solely theirs to use.


http://instagram.com/p/f-JGO8AxXX/

That is so funny that you bring this up - before this latest police interceptor, I've often wondered the same thing.  When they went to the Chevy's and when JTA replaced their busses years back, I thought "wow - Jax has money for this?".  I've never been in a city, to my knowledge, with such new fleets of city-owned cars.  Most cities I've been in still have crown vics for police cars, and I'm used to riding busses that seem like they are decades old (could also be associated with wear and tear since the busses I'm accustomed to riding or seeing actually get used unlike JTA's often new busses).

In a city with such a tight budget, a pension problem, etc etc you'd think they'd learn to make do with what they have.  In a city with no transit riders, I'd expect to see some old busses but better routes, actual stations, and increased advertising/awareness.  In a city with high crime, I'd rather see more officers than new cars every couple years for the existing payroll.  I'm probably missing something.

[Charles Hunter]

Also got a DM from forum member who believes that some of Community Service Officers receive their own vehicle (traffic cops-yellow lights and bright safety vests) ... Can anyone confirm is that true? In clay county they have them but those cars are switched among officers each shift and stay at substations when not in use.

I think the CSO's were cut a couple budget cycles ago.  As a result, FHP is covering crashes on many of the state roads that the CSO's used to cover.  Having JSO sworn officers and FHP respond to car crashes has led to much longer wait times.  Crashes, unless they are blocking traffic or involve fatality or injury, aren't as high a priority as responding to crimes.

I think the take-home plan predates the Peyton/Glove administration by quite a number of years - probably back into the 1970s or 80s.

Back in 1970, the Urban Institute studied the Indianapolis Fleet Plan, but that report is out of print (interesting but not helpful info via Google).  Even if it was available, being pre 1970s oil supply disruption and everything else that has taken place in the last 43 years - pretty sure it wouldn't be very useful.

In 1995 the Fraternal Order of Police published a paper in favor of take-home vehicles.  It provides a look at the claimed benefits, not so much on the other side. http://www.fop.net/programs/research/takehomecars.pdf   One of claimed benefits is that police officers with take-home vehicles take better care of them, than if they just took over a 'pool' vehicle for an 8-hour shift, taking over from another cop after their 8-hour shift, and handing it off to another officer.  This, on its face, makes sense.  Even without TLC, it seems that pool cars would run up more 'hard' miles more quickly, leading to more frequent trade-ins.

Interestingly, Indianapolis is moving to "green" its entire fleet, including police vehicles - plug-ins, hybrids CNG, etc.  They are working with manufacturers to balance 'clean/efficient' with 'get the bad guys'.  http://www.governing.com/topics/energy-env/gov-indianapolis-aims-for-all-green-fleet.html

In a city with high crime, I'd rather see more officers than new cars every couple years for the existing payroll.  I'm probably missing something.

And I'm pretty sure the vehicles on the current JSO fleet are more than a couple years old.

[peestandingup]

And expect them to pay/help justify their existence by ticketing like crazy, IE tax you.

Create industry for "safety". Employ many useless people to do the mostly useless jobs, who otherwise will not question what they're doing as wrong or realizing that it has little to no effect in the broader sense (cops can't be everywhere, vehicles are dangerous, everyone forced to drive, bad things happen regardless). Residents help pay for the increased "safety" on the front end, then again on the back end (tickets) seeing that its the only way to sustain it. The cycle continues.

Apply the above similarly to the war on terror, drug war, prisons, etc.

[simms3]

Not knowing enough about cars myself, it would seem that a sturdy Crown Vic built for interdictory/police use would be able to stand a lot more "joy-riding" and testing the limits than these newer, flashy "civilian" looking cars that JSO and other agencies in FL are using.

Take home car does not necessarily equal personal car, so maybe there are studies that cops take better care of them, but if I were handed a brand new car for free with the possibility it would be wrecked in my line of work anyway, I don't think I would necessarily take better care of it, LoL.

But has anyone noticed that JTA's bus fleet is hella nicer than any other bus fleet around?  It's so ironic because nobody uses the bus fleet - it's not the "busses" themselves that will make the system useful and increase ridership, it's make the system useful that will increase ridership, irrespective of what fleet the agency is using.  The busses I ride give me the sense that they are going to break down at any point (especially nervewracking on the "1" which goes straight up a hill and rolls back every time it has to stop).  It's still packed with people of all types (which also increases my thinking that at some point I'm going to die on it given the added weight, LoL).

[mtraininjax]

The City Motor Pool wants to standardize on 2 cars, no more. They want to keep the number of parts needed to a minimum. A few years back BMW, yes, BMW, was trying to get cops to look at their 3 series. The FHP uses Dodge Chargers, but Jax is pretty good with the Fords and the Chevys they have now. The Crown Vic is bigger, less efficient engine and probably being phased out due to parts issues.

I don't have a problem with cops using vehicles for personal issues. I'd much rather have the cops than put them out of work. If having a car to drive for some personal trips is part of the job, so be it. We need our police!

[strider]

It makes sense that the city would standardize.  I also think that they do not just up and replace every car every two years, they are phased out over "x" number of years, I just don't know the formula.  I suspect is is not just age, but several other factors as repair history, mileage, accidents, ETC.

Still doesn't explain if one car per officer is the most cost effective way or not. Effectiveness of the officers does have to be a factor in that calculation as well as repairs and replacement costs.