Downtown Beautification: Orlando

[I-10east]

I don't know anything about ORL's Chase Plaza; Just looking at the pics, I noticed some vacant spots on the big sign; Has it seen better days concerning some urban decline similar to the Jacksonville Landing (not comparing the two) with the empty stores?

[Tacachale]

Bottom line: Orlando has left us in the dust. 40+ years ago Orlando was a  sleepy little central Florida town...

40 years? Downtown Orlando was nothing 15ish years ago. Jax can do this in about the same time frame, we just need to get the stupid out!

Word. Less than 15 years ago Downtown Orlando was in a comparable state to how Downtown Jax is today (of course at that time Downtown Jax was in a much worse state than now). And "Central Florida" has even more going on outside the city core than we do. There's no reason we couldn't have the same success or better if we got our act together.

[coredumped]

The BofA tower used to be lit up at night and I think it looked really sharp. Sadly it's not on anymore. It's a small thing, but things like this add up and give downtown a whole different feeling.

[thelakelander]

I don't know anything about ORL's Chase Plaza; Just looking at the pics, I noticed some vacant spots on the big sign; Has it seen better days concerning some urban decline similar to the Jacksonville Landing (not comparing the two) with the empty stores?

I don't know too much about it, other than Cameron Kuhn building it, it going through some early leasing trouble and the theater originally struggling. 

[I-10east]

The BofA tower used to be lit up at night and I think it looked really sharp. Sadly it's not on anymore. It's a small thing, but things like this add up and give downtown a whole different feeling.

+100

[BoldBoyOfTheSouth]

When we visit Orlando we try to stay either downtown or in the Thorton Park neighborhood right next to and within walking distance of downtown.

[BoldBoyOfTheSouth]

Downtown Orlando has a great idea for their Publix. It's on the ground level witht he front door right onto the sidewalk/major street corner, parking above the store and then condos above.  All of this within the same highrise building.

This is so much better than the Publix in Riverside here in Jax.   Riverside Publix is not really street level retail but suburban style of being a stand alone building turning its back on two streets just to have a parking lot & the only door going onto the parking lot. 

Why not zone for all of these to be within the same building and have the entrance to the store be on the sidewalk/street and walk just feet away to the entrance to the parking garage/elevators and just steps away to the entrance to the condos in the building above?

[thelakelander]

I believe the Downtown Orlando and Riverside Publix are the exact same model.  In Orlando, Publix was given incentives to locate their store in a high-rise project where they created a ground level retail space to fit with what Publix needed. In Riverside, the developer's (I believe it was Sembler) plans didn't include high-rise residential. All in all, zoning wasn't the main difference between what was built in DT Orlando and Riverside.  I'd say market dynamics and the availability of public subsidies were more significant factors.

[SunKing]

Bottom line: Orlando has left us in the dust. 40+ years ago Orlando was a  sleepy little central Florida town and Jacksonville was somewhat vibrant and alive. Now Orlando is heading rapidly into becoming a really cool downtown and Jacksonville is constantly struggling. But for me you can say the same thing about every Florida city compared to Jacksonville.

I travel to Orlando quite a bit on business and have an office in an old building right off Central.  Its one of the most deppressing DT areas I have been to and I would say that Jacksonville blows it away. 

12,000 residents?  That must include the homeless population.

[thelakelander]

Hmm?

For the last 15-20 years or so, DT Orlando has had a decent nightlife scene in the vicinity of Orange & Central.  I'd say, it easily blows DT Jax away when it comes to dining and nightlife within a compact area.  Not only are there several restaurants and bars immediately adjacent to one another, it also has a multi-screen movie theatre. They are also being pretty progressive in using multiple forms of mobility to link their DT with the rest of the MSA. Investment in Sunrail and using BRT as a free downtown circulator will pay off big time for Orlando.

Also, Orlando has been blessed with a lot of residential infill over the last 15 years but like Jax, it's still waiting to turn the corner of attracting a decent amount of concentrated street level retail like Miami, St. Petersburg (and even Winter Park) have successfully pulled off.

However, DT Jax is historically much larger, giving it a more authentically urban feel.  In Orlando, there's no decent concentration of early 20th century highrise and midrise buildings like you'll find on Laura Street. There's no historic showplace the scale of the Florida Theatre (and to think we actually had a theatre district).  You can't find an abundance of old school industry like Maxwell House or North Florida Shipyards either and nothing in urban Central Florida can compete with the setting the river and bridges provide.  DT Jax has all the tools to be a great walkable environment.  We just have to put it together.

Realistically speaking, DT Jax is one of the most depressing big city downtowns (when looking at active 24/7 street level life) I've seen in the last 15 years.  I'd lump it in the same bag with the DTs of Birmingham, Louisville, Rochester, Macon, Toledo and Buffalo. Full of potential but dead as a doornail outside of small pockets.  All are still searching for the right mix of ingredients to finally turn the corner for good, like cities such as Pittsburgh, Fort Worth and Kansas City have recently done.

With that said, you also have to put things in their proper perspective. Being a historically larger city, the general urban core (this includes walkable districts outside of the CBD) of Jax is much larger than Orlando's.  Thornton Park is essentially a smaller version of Riverside/Avondale.  It just happens to be immediately adjacent to DT Orlando, allowing them to impressively feed off one another.  Parramore is Orlando's version of Jax's LaVilla, Brooklyn, Durkeeville, Sugar Hill, etc. It just happens to be on the other side of DT Orlando.

One can look at this situation as a blessing or a curse.  In the short term, you can build a pretty decent compact walkable setting when your "Riverside" (Thornton Park) is immediately next to the heart of your "Northbank" (DT Orlando). Yet, you'll still struggle to pump life back into your "LaVilla/Brooklyn" (Parramore) due to it being not being in the middle of the other two districts.  In Jax's situation, you have a much larger "Thornton Park" (Riverside/Avondale) that's separated from DT (Northbank) by a "Parramore" (Brooklyn) that's rapidly transforming right before our eyes.  In the long term, you'll end up with a much more impressive and large scale walkable central city.

Also, don't forget, DT Jax has a similar situation and opportunity with the Southbank and San Marco on the other side of the river.

[CityLife]

Orlando is my least favorite Florida city in a lot of ways...but every time I've been to Downtown, its been fairly vibrant in relation to DT Jax. I'd chalk this up to a few things. Orlando has significantly more college students than Jax and the area around UCF is fairly lame for going out (similar to UNF). This leads to more students going out downtown there. While in Jax, many UNF students/young alumni live and play at the beach. Orlando also has a significant amount of young people that move there to perform at theme parks and in the entertainment biz. The areas near the theme parks are also fairly lame for non-tourists, so once again, these young people end up downtown.

Basically, Orlando has a lot more potential downtown bar/nightlife users than Jax without the beach to compete with. That said, all those potential users wouldn't be downtown if the proper environment wasn't created and Orlando seems to have done a lot of things right in that regard.

[BoldBoyOfTheSouth]

Downtown Orlando was once a ghost town after five pm on most days of the week and not much else going on during weekend nights.  Today, it's a vibrant place after dark and getting even more vibrant by the month.   

This was from a combination of smart urban planning on a human level.