Are We Poised for a War in Syria?

[civil42806]

Just saw this on Facebook - a group organizing in Jacksonville to oppose war in Syria:
https://www.facebook.com/jawsyria

I think you mean War ON Syria.  There has been a war going on IN Syria for quite some time.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Well done Mr. President.  The president has just announced he is ready to act at any moment, "however" he is going to take the decision to Congress and let the peoples representatives decide before the order to strike is executed!  This is what needed to happen!  This is what I hoped he would do.

http://www.cnn.com/

Then he shouldn't have talked it up like he was going to attack, talking about red lines, about all the horrors going on.   DOD officials talking about attack plans.  Quite frankly I think this all bit dear leader in the butt.  He and Kerry talked themselves into a corner and needed an out.  So at the last second he punts to congress and hopes dearly that they vote against any attack.  That way he can vote present and place blame on congress about any outcome.  Oh and work a couple of rounds of golf in as well.

(Oh and work a couple of rounds of golf in as well.) Why not, do you work 24/7 365 days out of a year? President Obama when taking a break is still working I doubt you can say the same.

[Charles Hunter]

And the Congress certainly sees this as something urgent, as they have all rushed back from the break early and are convening as I type this to discuss the President's proposal.

Oh, wait, they aren't ... nevermind.

[BridgeTroll]

John Kerry speech transcript...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/running-transcript-secretary-of-state-john-kerrys-remarks-on-syria-on-aug-30/2013/08/30/f3a63a1a-1193-11e3-85b6-d27422650fd5_story.html

[civil42806]

If Assad had just had the decency to just keep shooting these people we wouldn't have this problem.  After all as our greatest Secretary of state said "he's a reformer".  But then again "what difference does it make". 

[civil42806]

This is an interesting news piece coming out of Syria via Mint Press.   Apparently there are "rebels" in Syria saying that they believe they were given "chemical weapons" along with some other weapons supplied by Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan.

The Prince as it turns out is also very heavily invested and connected in Washington, D.C. and to top politicians.  This information if it proves to be truthful would put a whole new light on the politics in Syria and the politics of U.S. leaders and the Saudi's. 

http://www.mintpressnews.com/witnesses-of-gas-attack-say-saudis-supplied-rebels-with-chemical-weapons/168135/  (click link for entire story)

(to learn more about Mint Press here is their FB link,  https://www.facebook.com/MintpressNewsMPN)

EXCLUSIVE: Syrians In Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack
Rebels and local residents in Ghouta accuse Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan of providing chemical weapons to an al-Qaida linked rebel group.

Ghouta, Syria — As the machinery for a U.S.-led military intervention in Syria gathers pace following last week's chemical weapons attack, the U.S. and its allies may be targeting the wrong culprit.

Interviews with people in Damascus and Ghouta, a suburb of the Syrian capital, where the humanitarian agency Doctors Without Borders said at least 355 people had died last week from what it believed to be a neurotoxic agent, appear to indicate as much.

The U.S., Britain, and France as well as the Arab League have accused the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad for carrying out the chemical weapons attack, which mainly targeted civilians. U.S. warships are stationed in the Mediterranean Sea to launch military strikes against Syria in punishment for carrying out a massive chemical weapons attack. The U.S. and others are not interested in examining any contrary evidence, with U.S Secretary of State John Kerry saying Monday that Assad's guilt was "a judgment ... already clear to the world."

However, from numerous interviews with doctors, Ghouta residents, rebel fighters and their families, a different picture emerges. Many believe that certain rebels received chemical weapons via the Saudi intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and were responsible for carrying out the dealing gas attack.

"My son came to me two weeks ago asking what I thought the weapons were that he had been asked to carry," said Abu Abdel-Moneim, the father of a rebel fighting to unseat Assad, who lives in Ghouta.

The Mint press?  Reads like the lefts version of Lew Rockwell. Wasn't ever aware that anyone claimed that Saudi had chemical weapons?  that's a new one.  But I agree, its unclear who used them, Syria certainly had stockpiles, and if not the Russians could have supplied them.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Exclusive: USS Nimitz carrier group rerouted for possible help with Syria

By Andrea Shalal-Esa

WASHINGTON - The nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Nimitz and other ships in its strike group are heading west toward the Red Sea to help support a limited U.S. strike on Syria, if needed, defense officials said on Sunday.

The Nimitz carrier strike group, which includes four destroyers and a cruiser, has no specific orders to move to the eastern Mediterranean at this point, but is moving west in the Arabian Sea so it can do so if asked.

"It's about leveraging the assets to have them in place should the capabilities of the carrier strike group and the presence be needed," said the official.

"We try to reduce the physics of time and space so we can be as ready as possible should we be needed," said a second official, cautioning that decisions about ship positioning in the Mediterranean were still being finalized.

President Barack Obama on Saturday delayed imminent cruise missile strikes by five destroyers off the coast of Syria until Congress had time to vote on the issue, effectively putting any military action on hold for at least nine days.

The delay gives military planners more time to reassess which ships and other weapons will be kept in the region - and which may be swapped out - before the military launches what defense officials say is still intended to be a limited and narrowly targeted attack on Syria.

The U.S. Navy doubled its presence in the eastern Mediterranean over the past week, effectively adding two destroyers to the three that generally patrol the region.

The destroyers are carrying a combined load of about 200 Tomahawk missiles, but officials say a limited strike on Syria could be accomplished with half that number.

The Nimitz carrier group had been in the Indian Ocean supporting U.S. operations in Afghanistan but was due to sail east around Asia to return to its home port in Everett, Washington, after being relieved in recent days by another aircraft carrier, the USS Harry S. Truman.

Given the situation in Syria, U.S. military officials decided to reroute the Nimitz and send it west toward the Red Sea, and possibly the Mediterranean, officials said.

The Navy has also sent the USS San Antonio, an amphibious ship carrying 300 Marines and extensive communications equipment, to join the destroyers, diverting it from a different mission that would have taken it farther west.

A second official said the San Antonio could serve as an afloat forward staging base, providing a temporary base for special operations forces, if they were needed. It could also assist with non-military evacuations.

A spokesman for the ship declined comment, referring questions to the Navy. Lieutenant Adam Cole, spokesman for the Navy's European headquarters, declined to discuss any specific plans for the San Antonio or future ship movements.

Decisions about Navy ship positioning will be made in coming days, based on military needs, maintenance issues and staffing requirements, officials said, noting that the delay in a strike on Syria had sent planners back to the drawing board.

The USS Kearsarge, a large-deck amphibious ship that is part of a readiness group with the San Antonio, is also on the way toward the Red Sea after a port call in the United Arab Emirates, officials said. No further specific orders had been issued to the ship, they said.

The Kearsarge, which carries 6 AV-8B Harriers, 10-12 V-22 Ospreys and helicopters, played a key role in the 2011 strikes on Libya. Two Ospreys launched from the ship helped rescue a downed F-15 pilot during that operation.

(Reporting by Andrea Shalal-Esa; Editing by Peter Cooney and Philip Barbara)

http://preview.reuters.com/2013/9/1/exclusive-uss-nimitz-carrier-group-rerouted-for-1

[If_I_Loved_you]

[Cheshire Cat]

I see political affiliations stateside as being irrelevant to the issue, as well as news/punditry/propaganda outlets selling a war, or decrying it.

Fifty pages of caterwauling doesn't provide a shred of evidence showing any particular faction to be responsible for gassing people, yet some treat it as a foregone conclusion.

And Galloway might be a hack. If you hear any untrue, or even hyperbolized points within the speech I linked, please point them out.

Message being more important than messenger. That, and the Scottish accent is bitchin.

I love a Scottish accent, as my dad's people are Scottish/English.   

As far as Galloway, he is not the type of person I would look to for "insight" on anything just because of who he is and his history of doing things like "celebrating" Saddam Hussein and other dictators.

Having said the above, I think it is going to be next to impossible for people to know the truth of this situation and what the "many" agenda's driving it happen to be.  However the Saudi influence is pushing heavily for our involvement in Syria and frankly, I don't think the decision of whether or not we respond with missile strikes should be based upon what they want.  Read another article confirming the pressure coming from the Saudi's.  I will see if I can find it again to post it.

[Cheshire Cat]

Well done Mr. President.  The president has just announced he is ready to act at any moment, "however" he is going to take the decision to Congress and let the peoples representatives decide before the order to strike is executed!  This is what needed to happen!  This is what I hoped he would do.

http://www.cnn.com/

Then he shouldn't have talked it up like he was going to attack, talking about red lines, about all the horrors going on.   DOD officials talking about attack plans.  Quite frankly I think this all bit dear leader in the butt.  He and Kerry talked themselves into a corner and needed an out.  So at the last second he punts to congress and hopes dearly that they vote against any attack.  That way he can vote present and place blame on congress about any outcome.  Oh and work a couple of rounds of golf in as well.

This is clearly another valid way to look at the decision made.  Whatever drove it though it is a good thing that this is going to congress to be debated by the peoples personal representatives.  We need to use the democratic process we tout as one the world should embrace.  It is also deeply concerning that next to no allies, save France have said they would support us in any effort in Syria.  There are times even the U.S. needs to listen and understand what others are saying.  I know we are considered a "sleeping giant" by many world wide.  I just don't want us to be the "ignorant gorilla" that others can poke with a stick and we react with violence that will change nothing regarding the Syrian conflict except notch the tension up to a much higher degree in the Middle East.  This is an area that has been in turmoil for thousands of years and frankly, we aren't gonna fix any of it. 

[If_I_Loved_you]

RUSSIA

Why it cares:

Two main reasons: One has to do with economics; the other with ideology.

a) Economics: Russia is one of Syria's biggest arms suppliers. aka Show me the Money Baby!

Syrian contracts with the Russian defense industry have likely exceeded $4 billion, according to Jeffrey Mankoff, an adjunct fellow with the Center for Strategic and International Studies Russia and Eurasia Program.

He noted the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute estimated the value of Russian arms sales to Syria at $162 million per year in both 2009 and 2010.

Moscow also signed a $550 million deal with Syria for combat training jets.

Russia also leases a naval facility at the Syrian port of Tartus, giving the Russian navy its only direct access to the Mediterranean, Mankoff said.

b) Ideology: Russia's key policy goal is blocking American efforts to shape the region.

Russia doesn't believe revolutions, wars and regime change bring stability and democracy. It often points to the Arab Spring and the U.S.-led war in Iraq as evidence.

Russia also doesn't trust U.S. intentions in the region. It believes humanitarian concerns are often used an excuse for pursuing America's own political and economic interests.

"Russia's backing of (Syrian President Bashar) al-Assad is not only driven by the need to preserve its naval presence in the Mediterranean, secure its energy contracts, or counter the West on 'regime change,'" said Anna Neistat, an associate program director at Human Rights Watch.

"It also stems from (Russian President Vladimir) Putin's existential fear for his own survival and the survival of the repressive system that he and al-Assad represent. In Putin's universe, al-Assad cannot lose because it means that one day he, Putin, might as well."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/29/world/meast/syria-iran-china-russia-supporters/index.html

[Cheshire Cat]

^What is interesting about the Russian influence is that France has clearly said they view their friendship with Russia as important as that of the U.S.A.  That should concern some folks in the decision making capacity when France is the only one saying they would support missile strikes and action in Syria at this time and Russia is heavily vested with arms and support in Syria.  France could be a middle man in more ways than one. 

[civil42806]

"Whatever drove it though it is a good thing"

No that's not a good thing Cheshire.  Its an abdication of leadership.  If he indeed wanted to go to congress and get approval, (which I think he should have to begin with).  Then he should have done so without being driven to it.  Kerry has to feel like a  5$ whore with the back tracking he has had to do.  Saudi influence in DC is no news its exists and will until we dump Mideast oil via either new fracking or alternate energy.  I was the one that questioned the mint news and still do the whole Saudi providing chems were based on interviews with Syria rebels, no hard news or tests.

[ChriswUfGator]

Oh yay, fracking, there's the solution!

[If_I_Loved_you]

^What is interesting about the Russian influence is that France has clearly said they view their friendship with Russia as important as that of the U.S.A.  That should concern some folks in the decision making capacity when France is the only one saying they would support missile strikes and action in Syria at this time and Russia is heavily vested with arms and support in Syria.  France could be a middle man in more ways than one.

I still feel something needs to be done. We had our pants around are ankles when Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons on the Kurds back in 1988? "The five-hour attack began in the evening of March 16, 1988, following a series of indiscriminate conventional (rocket and napalm) attacks, when Iraqi MiG and Mirage aircraft began dropping chemical bombs on Halabja's residential areas, far from the besieged Iraqi army base on the outskirts of the town. According to regional Kurdish rebel commanders, Iraqi aircraft conducted up to 14 bombings in sorties of seven to eight planes each; helicopters coordinating the operation were also seen. Eyewitnesses told of clouds of white, black and then yellow smoke billowing upward and rising as a column about 150 feet (46 m) in the air.[1]

"It was a beautiful spring day. As the clock approached 11:00 in the morning, I felt a strange sensation; my heart convulsed as if it were telling me that we were on the verge of a major calamity. Within minutes, artillery rounds began to explode in Halabja and planes began dropping bombs on the town. The bombing was concentrated on the northern neighborhoods, so we ran and hid in our basement. At 2 o'clock in the afternoon, as the intensity of the bombing wound down, I carefully sneaked out of the basement to the kitchen and carried food to my family. When the bombing stopped, we began to hear noises that sounded like metal pieces falling on the ground. But I didn't find an explanation.

I saw things that I won't forget for as long as I live. It started with a loud strange noise that sounded like bombs exploding, and a man came running into our house, shouting, 'Gas! Gas!' We hurried into our car and closed its windows. I think the car was rolling over the bodies of innocent people. I saw people lying on the ground, vomiting a green-colored liquid, while others became hysterical and began laughing loudly before falling motionless onto the ground. Later, I smelled an aroma that reminded me of apples and I lost consciousness. When I awoke, there were hundreds of bodies scattered around me. After that I took shelter again in a nearby basement and the area was engulfed by an ugly smell. It was similar to rotting garbage, but then it changed to a sweet smell similar to that of apples. Then I smelled something that was like eggs.

When you hear people shouting the words 'gas' or 'chemicals' -- and you hear those shouts spreading among the people -- that is when terror begins to take hold, especially among the children and the women. Your loved ones, your friends, you see them walking and then falling like leaves to the ground. It is a situation that cannot be described -- birds began falling from their nests; then other animals, then humans. It was total annihilation. Whoever was able to walk out of the town, left on foot. Whoever had a car, left by car. But whoever had too many children to carry on their shoulders, they stayed in the town and succumbed to the gas."[8]

Survivors said the gas at first smelled of sweet apples;[9] they said people died in a number of ways, suggesting a combination of toxic chemicals: some of the victims "just dropped dead" while others "died of laughing," while still others took a few minutes to die, first "burning and blistering" or coughing up green vomit.[10] Many injured, blind and mad, perished in a panic.[11] It is believed that Iraqi forces used multiple chemical agents during the attack, including sulfur mustard (mustard gas) and the nerve agents sarin, tabun and VX.[3] Some sources have also pointed to the blood agent hydrogen cyanide. Most of the wounded taken to hospitals in the Iranian capital Tehran were suffering from mustard gas exposure.[1]

Some consider the event as separate from the Operation Anfal (the 1986–1989 campaign conducted by Saddam's regime's in order to terrorize the Kurdish rural population and end the peshmerga rebellions by brutal means), as the Iranian troops allied to the rebels were also involved in the Halabja events. Nevertheless, the victims of the tragedy are often included in accounting the deaths attributable to the Anfal campaign, which was characterised by the widespread and indiscriminate use of chemical weapons by Iraq. Prior to the Halabja incident there were at least 21 documented smaller-scale chemical attacks against Iraqi Kurds, none of which prompted any serious response from the international community.[12]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack