Nathan Beford Forrest High: Time For a Name Change

[thelakelander]

The TU has an article about this issue now:

A Jacksonville man's attempt to change the controversial name of Nathan B. Forrest High School is quickly gaining widespread online support because of a social media campaign.

Omotayo Richmond argues that having the Jacksonville school named after the first grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan is preventing black students from being proud to graduate from the school. With a name change, he said, "there'll be a sense of pride coming from the black students of the school there."

Richmond said he started his petition on Change.org at the start of August and it already has gathered more than 71,000 signatures. Some signatures come from Jacksonville residents, but most come from all over the nation.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-09-05/story/jacksonville-man-starts-petition-change-forrest-high-school-name

[sheclown]

Posted: 5:26 a.m. Thursday, Sept. 5, 2013

Thousands Fight to change name of local high school

By Kevin Rafuse

JACKSONVILLE, Fl. —

He was a confederate general and grand wizard of the KKK.

And has a local high school named after him.

Many outraged residents are calling for Nathan B. Forrest High School to change names saying the name is racially insensitive.

Thousands of people have signed an online petition formally requesting the name to be changed. The petition aims for 75,000 signatures. Organizer Omotayo Richmond argues the name sends the wrong message and represents a man who enslaved, slaughtered and disenfranchised blacks in America.

This isn't the first time there's been a call for change. In 2006, people suggested the name be changed to Eartha M.M. White -- after a Jacksonville philanthropist.

In 2008, the Duval County School Board voted 5-2 to keep the same name. Current Superintendent Nikolai Vitti says he has no problem with change, as long it goes through the proper channels.

Students say the name doesn't affect them and they just want to go to school.

http://www.wokv.com/news/news/local/thousands-fight-change-name-local-high-school/nZnJQ/

[thelakelander]

Is there a negative economic/image impact for our overall region that's reinforced nationwide when we vehemently fight to preserve Jim Crow era discriminatory-based decisions? Just wondering, because I travel a lot and I've fielded quite a few questions over the years about issues like this.  In fact, the Forrest thing came up in a conversation about a month or two ago.

[Cheshire Cat]

Is there a negative economic/image impact for our overall region that's reinforced nationwide when we vehemently fight to preserve Jim Crow era discriminatory-based decisions? Just wondering, because I travel a lot and I've fielded quite a few questions over the years about issues like this.  In fact, the Forrest thing came up in a conversation about a month or two ago.

It appears there would be.  Consider the fact that many of the signatures on the petition to change the name are not from Jacksonville.  People are clearly aware throughout the country.

[Ajax]

I'm for changing it.  According to the article, the procedure to change the name requires that

...a petitioner or group must present the proposal to the school's advisory council and have it approved. After that, it needs another OK from the School Board.

So the issue won't be decided by a referendum.  It sounds like there's quite a bit of support for changing it, so now they probably need to work on building a consensus.  There are some pretty prideful people on the westside and if an attempt is not made to build consensus then some of them are going to resent what will feel like having this shoved down their throats.  Some of you may say "too bad" but that could cause problems and unintended consequences in the future that could be prevented with some forethought. 

For me, and for many, the name of the school was like that drunk uncle you see at Thanksgiving.  Everyone else may be horrified, but I grew up with it, it seemed normal, and I got used to it.  Like I said before, as a student at that school, I don't remember any of us ever talking about it or being bothered by it - black kids, white kids, skaters, new wave kids.  Many of my friends were 'activist-types' but the name of the school didn't push any buttons that I'm aware of.  Sometimes it takes an 'outsider' to come in and open your eyes to see the things you take for granted or just don't notice.

The people opposed to the change for the most part probably fall into one of three groups: 1) racists, 2) people who oppose change because they feel that it would be PC or dishonor southern history, or 3) people who are ignorant/apathetic.  I'm sure I'm oversimplifying because I think I fell somewhere between Groups 2 and 3. 

You're never going to convince Group 1.  You might convince a few in Group 2, and if you can avoid pushing people from Group 3 into Group 2, then you can build some consensus.  I think the only way you do that is by holding some community workshops and educating people through local media. 

If your only argument is that Forrest founded the KKK and that he was a bad person, that's not going to be enough.  Bringing up the KKK will elicit a knee-jerk reaction on all sides.  Those who oppose a name change will come back with the argument that he left the KKK, it was different back then, etc.  You end up causing people to look for reasons that he should be honored and trying to justify keeping the name. 

The overriding factor (for me, anyway) is that the school received its name for the wrong reasons, and the kids that go to school there should not feel ashamed of the name.  As someone mentioned earlier, Forrest's name will live on in this history books.  There are other, more appropriate ways to remember him.  But the name of this school doesn't reflect what Jacksonville is in 2013. 

I think the name will be changed, probably sooner rather than later, so now maybe it's time to also start thinking about what the new name should be since it appears that is part of the process that the School Board requires.   

[fsquid]

Is there a negative economic/image impact for our overall region that's reinforced nationwide when we vehemently fight to preserve Jim Crow era discriminatory-based decisions? Just wondering, because I travel a lot and I've fielded quite a few questions over the years about issues like this.  In fact, the Forrest thing came up in a conversation about a month or two ago.

Nope, people ask me if I've played at Sawgrass and why the Jags are so shit.

[Tacachale]

I highly doubt there's any way to quantify an economic impact, especially when you factor in the considerable cost of changing the name. But there's definitely something of an image impact, mostly locally, but also nationally as it makes us look backwards when it periodically comes up in the media.

[Cheshire Cat]

I highly doubt there's any way to quantify an economic impact, especially when you factor in the considerable cost of changing the name. But there's definitely something of an image impact, mostly locally, but also nationally as it makes us look backwards when it periodically comes up in the media.

I agree.  The image problem exists and many a time people from other areas ask me why I stay here.  I think the negative is grossly overplayed when it comes to our city which I happen to love, warts and all.  I think anything that we can do to improve our image and say to the world that we are a tolerant people we should just "do it"!  I believe a name change on the school will send a positive message on many levels.

[thelakelander]

Isn't our "image problem" one of the things that resulted in Wells Fargo moving their Florida headquarters to Miami a few years back?  How many high paying jobs were involved with that decision?  That alone should be significantly more economically than the cost stemming from the name change of a single school.

[NotNow]

I don't think any "image problem" we might have is caused by the name of a local high school.  I'm in favor of changing the name because it is inappropriate for a school building.  But if we want to waste a few million electrons discussing our "image problem" or our racial divide, then we should be discussing different subjects.  Everyone knows the statistics that plague our minority youth.  Let's discuss that problem, which contributes greatly to our "image problem".  If we can alter those statistics and the resultant crime problem, no one will care about the names on the schools.

The high school graduation rate for Duval County is 67.7%.  The Florida rate is about 81%.  All of the counties surrounding Duval exceed the state rate. 

We need to change a whole lot more than the names of the schools.

[Tacachale]

````c

[NotNow]

The policy for changing the name of the school has been clearly stated.  The petition has been started.  All that needs doing now is to sign the petition and maybe call or write the members of the school board.  I have clearly stated my opinion on the matter.  I prefer the name Speicher.  Debating the man N. B. Forrest in this format will solve nothing. 

My last post focused on the statements about the image of Jacksonville nationwide.  My point, which you failed to grasp, is that the name of a Confederate General on a local school does not have nearly the impact on our "national reputation" as does the educational achievements and living conditions of our citizens today. 

Your reference to the President, just as your analysis of my post, is off point and a distraction from the conversation.

[NotNow]

As several have stated here, this subject has never been mentioned to me when traveling.  I googled your seach term and found several references to a recent incident at a North Dakota high school, and only one reference to Jacksonville on the Daily Kos.  There was much less discussion than what is found in this thread. 

I'm good with either of those names.

[thelakelander]

I don't think any "image problem" we might have is caused by the name of a local high school....

We need to change a whole lot more than the names of the schools.

Yes we do. I never said the school name was the reason for our national image problem. While we spend time debating names of schools, human rights ordinances, billboards, etc., most look at all these trivial things as a trait of a place that's generally backwards. That's something we should be working to overcome because it impacts more issues we face then most believe.

[JayBird]

Isn't our "image problem" one of the things that resulted in Wells Fargo moving their Florida headquarters to Miami a few years back?  How many high paying jobs were involved with that decision?  That alone should be significantly more economically than the cost stemming from the name change of a single school.

I don't know about Wells Fargo, the reason HSBC left was because the 200+ they employed in Jax didn't want to work, they wanted a paycheck. The workers in Jax are good for call centers, back office support, none of this will change with a name change, actually that wouldn't even put the community on the road to change. I would be interested to know how many of those signatures are alumni, because even though I feel the name should be changed, it should really be decided by the community that sends their kids there.