JTA Skyway's TIGER Grant Application

[simms3]

The track itself to extend the Skyway the proposed length (a block?) is $3.6M.  Period.  I'm out.

[JeffreyS]

Not Necessarily it's just a monorail now it's not people mover any longer so we could just run a monorail beam and substantially lower the cost.

[JFman00]

The track itself to extend the Skyway the proposed length (a block?) is $3.6M.  Period.  I'm out.

If I remember right the single-track, 1.4 mile streetcar extension to the Amtrak/Greyhound terminal cost significantly more than that.

[thelakelander]

A modern streetcar line would run you around $20 million/mile or so.....for everything. You could cut that cost in half by going with a no-frills replica trolley system.  I'd have to look the numbers up and verify, but I'm 100% Little Rock's streetcar cost them under $10 million/mile to construct.  Tampa's was around $12 million/mile.  Extend the skyway over a similar distance and it will easily cost you double or more than that of a streetcar.

[jcjohnpaint]

Maybe the fail to win the grant will make JTA look to the option of streetcar

[tufsu1]

^ are you rooting for the grant app to fail?

[jcjohnpaint]

No, I just don't think it will fly.  I think Simms has it correct.

[thelakelander]

Maybe the fail to win the grant will make JTA look to the option of streetcar

Doubt it.  A Skyway station in Brooklyn and a streetcar line aren't an either/or situation.

[mbstout]

GoogleMaps tells me that if I'm a Fuqua resident or Times-Union/Haskell employee it would take me 8 minutes to bike to lunch or dinner at Charthouse or bb's, and 27 minutes to walk (free).  So for $20 million I'd get a station I'd walk to, wait for skyway to Central, get off, wait for south bank train transfer skyway, ride across river to Riverplace or Kings station, then walk (maybe ~30 minutes??)
I just don't get it.  This spur could maybe extend to Forrest/Everbank/Arts Market but not any further and provide for not much connectivity options. Plus we have a beautiful Riverwalk already in place!!
I could see a wiser use of $$ invested in acquiring rights of way and beginning to think about the larger scale of Jacksonville & the S-Line: a system that runs from Osborne/future Intermodal Center through underserved communities, & up to the massive transportation link that is the JIA. Then we're really beginning to think beyond the scale of serving a handful of people and shortsighted realities of distances traveled to a network that works wholistically for the community/travelers/tourists, encourages real investments in TOD's, interconnectivity, and pushes Jax out of '3rd Tier' city status to be considered a real option against markets like Orlando, Austin, Atlanta, etc..

[JeffreyS]

^Yeah you know everyone in Jax is more likely to bike or walk places......um no sorry not sure what I was thinking.

I believe jax already owns and pulled up the tracks on the S line.

I can get on board with your thinking that it too much to pay for a small skyway expansion when it could be used towards a streetcar starter line in Riverside, Springfield or the beach.

[jcjohnpaint]

Sorry, I just have a bad feeling about this.  If we fail to achieve this grant, we could be in for a long road ahead. 

[JTAFLA]

We're pleased to see that Metro Jacksonville has posted our TIGER Grant application to extend the Skyway to Brooklyn.  Your post has generated a good discussion and some excellent questions.  JTA would like to join the conversation with some additional information in the hope that we can positively advance the discussion.
JTA chose to pursue this grant as proposed for several reasons:

•   Improves the effectiveness of the Skyway
   This is a great opportunity to connect the Skyway to existing commercial and residential development (600 residential units and a grocery store) on Riverside Avenue.
   The Skyway has traditionally connected peripheral parking to downtown employers.  This new development along with residential development on the Southbank means the Skyway would now have critical connections between residential, commercial and employment centers.

•   Utilizes Existing Infrastructure
   There is already a one-third mile guideway in place from Central Station to the Operations and Maintenance center that is not being used for passenger service. 
   A stub out was previously constructed to support this extension.

•   Enables future extension
   By building an elevated station this would allow us to get over Leila Street and extend further down Riverside in the future. (From an engineering standpoint there is some question as to whether we could even get to grade before Leila Street although we could still consider this in the design.)
   The proposal includes $5 million for an upgraded system controls.  This would support the proposed extension and further extensions.  We have a pretty wide estimate on the cost for this so we included the high-end estimate to ensure the project is properly budgeted.

•   Meets project readiness requirements
   The TIGER Grant requires construction funds to be obligated by June of 2014.  This means the environmental and design work must be done before that.
   The preliminary planning for the extension was done in 2009 so we have a head start to meeting project readiness requirements.
   JTA owns the land where the extension is planned.  That means there is no right of way and environmental reviews can be completed quickly.
   While JTA has air rights along Riverside Avenue, the potential impacts on property owners would require a more extensive environmental process that may not be feasible in the grant timeline. It should be noted that we considered the further extension but based on grant requirements, cost and potential complications along that segment it should be considered as a future phase.

•   We believe application is most competitive as proposed
   Based on previous TIGER Grants we believe smaller requests with overmatch will be most competitive. 

We have requested the minimum amount ($10 million) and provided a 50/50 match.
   Projects that support urban infill, redevelopment and alternative transportation have been very competitive in past rounds.

Again, we appreciate MJ's strong interest in promoting a healthy discussion regarding downtown development and public transit. We hope this information is useful as you debate the merits of our proposal.

[Charles Hunter]

Welcome JTAFLA!  Hope you will become a regular participant - you are often a topic of discussion, will be good to have you take part.

[thelakelander]

Welcome to the site, JTA!

[thelakelander]

GoogleMaps tells me that if I'm a Fuqua resident or Times-Union/Haskell employee it would take me 8 minutes to bike to lunch or dinner at Charthouse or bb's, and 27 minutes to walk (free).  So for $20 million I'd get a station I'd walk to, wait for skyway to Central, get off, wait for south bank train transfer skyway, ride across river to Riverplace or Kings station, then walk (maybe ~30 minutes??)

If you bike or walk, you'll need a shower by the time you reach Charthouse, BB's or anything else.  Most likely, you'll drive, given our climate and the Acosta Bridge's slope.

I just don't get it.  This spur could maybe extend to Forrest/Everbank/Arts Market but not any further and provide for not much connectivity options. Plus we have a beautiful Riverwalk already in place!!

In the grand scheme of things, it would potentially be tied into a streetcar stretching into Riverside and complemented by bus service into Westside neighborhoods.  So, you can't really isolate the proposal without considering the role of other mobility options and how they tie into this long term.

I could see a wiser use of $$ invested in acquiring rights of way and beginning to think about the larger scale of Jacksonville & the S-Line: a system that runs from Osborne/future Intermodal Center through underserved communities, & up to the massive transportation link that is the JIA.

COJ already owns most of the S-Line and you probably don't want to invest in commuter rail ROW (I assume buying CSX's tracks to the port) until we're sure on the feasibility of such a project.  At this point in time, it appears proposed commuter rail lines to St. Augustine and Clay County would generate more ridership, thus they appear to be higher priority.  With that said, the mobility plan/fee is currently structured to generate funds for the S-Line corridor through the Northside.  We just need to collect the fee instead of continuously waiving it and make sure council doesn't attempt to take the money and pave roads with it.

Then we're really beginning to think beyond the scale of serving a handful of people and shortsighted realities of distances traveled to a network that works wholistically for the community/travelers/tourists, encourages real investments in TOD's, interconnectivity, and pushes Jax out of '3rd Tier' city status to be considered a real option against markets like Orlando, Austin, Atlanta, etc..

I believe planning efforts are currently being done holistically.  However, commuter rail on the North Corridor would not be an ideal candidate for a TIGER grant at this stage.  Plus, we'll need more than a commuter rail line with only 4 to 6 train trips a day to become a real option against some other markets.

To reach such a lofty goal, some of the first things we'll have to do is revamp/restructure the existing bus system and modify land uses to better facilitate and encourage higher densities along existing and future high frequency transit corridors.