The Paramount End User of Downtown

[Midway ®]

Actually, I worked in the Duval County jail for about a year.  It sucks.  It is a stretch to say that people would prefer life there to finding a job and a place to live. 

Note that this solution only applies to those who choose to be lazy and beg downtown.  The real insane would be treated and not in jail either (if I were King).  It really amuses me how these do gooders believe that it is better for the insane to be living on the streets in their own filth than for them to be in secure treatment facilities.  Which policy is really humane?

Congratulations. This post makes sense. It seems very different in tone from the previous one.

BTW, would you be willing to finance these secure treatment facilities through increased taxes? Issuance of bonds? What would be your suggestion, inasmuch as these facilities either do not presently exist or are already at capacity. I agree with you that the mentally ill component within the homeless population should be treated, but what facility exists for that?

Then by extension, if the mentally ill are not animals, and do not deserve to be living on the street, what about another demographic component of the homeless population, say, the person who is just poor and homeless? I don't think that they are all truly a "criminal element", although I am sure that there is certainly a portion that are.

But again, secure treatment is a great idea, as long as someone can be found to finance it, probably the taxpayers of Duval county. And keep in mind when it opens, that it will become a magnet facility for the whole country, because it will be a first of its kind, so you may have to limit it to in-state native born vagrants only.

[obie1]

Like it has been pointed out above, jail is an expensive option, probably more expensive than implementing treatment programs that would get at the core of the problem. Anyone have hard numbers on this?
Every city has these problems. In cities with a wider variety of folks hanging around downtown the homeless blend in and make up  less percentage numbers wise.

[Steve]

Doesnt every inner city have this issue? I know when I was in Denver in Oct for a convention, I stayed downtown at the Hilton thats near the convention center and as we drove into downtown we pasted what the cab driver called "vaigrant island" or something like that. It was were the homeless shelter, food bank and a few other centers for homeless were located, there must have been atleast 150 homeless in one area. But it was just outside of the core.

Yes man!!! Every major city has this situation(not a problem)...I don't get this topic. I mean who cares??? If homeless people keep you from going where YOU WANT TO GO, then that just means you didn't want to be there to begin with. I have been to a few major American cities and the homeless are always around. They are not going anywhere. Leave em be. If they ask for money tell em NO and keep it moving!! They ain't animals. Hemming Plaza and the Main Library were some of my favorite places to kick it, even played a few chess games with some the of the homeless's best lol. Jacksonville is a CITY!!! Not a frigging town country bunkers!!!


Eeewwwww look the homeless.....OMG the homeless.....I mean really?  No disrespect but these are some dumb ass responses. In a way it sorta irritates me how people want Jacksonville to have the BIG CITY LIFESTYLE but only want certain parts of it. Bums come with the BIG CITY LIFESTYLE folks. Peace

I disagree - having spent time in many urban areas (San Diego, Portland, Chicago, and Miami most recently), we are far and away, worse than any of the four I just mentioned.  Yes, part of the issue is that with nobody downtown, the homeless approach the random person that they can find.  This gives the perception to people that the homeless are coming after them (not true, but a perception).  In real cities, the homeless just sit there with a sign while hundreds of people pass them every day.

The other issue is that we've collected all of the social service centers downtown, which exacerbates the issue.  Furthermore, Jacksonville is a large city areawise, and when anyone is arrested anywhere in the county, they are brough downtown and released downtown.

Until we solve this issue, the problem will not go away.

[walter]

I'm wondering why anyone in their right mind would open up a business downtown?  I mean I can understand if you're a non-profit catering to the needy or a church group doing the same, but anything else and you're really just asking for it.  If you try to run them off you're labelled a racist or a bigot.  If you ask for help from the city you're laughed at, so what is a business owner to do?  I'm guessing open out at the beach or in one of the cushy suburbs where all these do gooders live.  You know the do gooders, those that work at catering to the homeless live in suburban communities where they'd never stand for the stuff that happens downtown.

I live downtown and put up with this all the time.  See these groups with their "homeless" feedings like there's a bunch of hungry homeless downtown, Ha thats funny.  I happen to live near the headquarters for a group that caters to the homeless, so I decided to see where the people who work at this "charity" live.  Lets see, fruit cove, Mandarin, Avondale, Ponte Vedra.. yeah real bleeding heart types, you know the kind, the lexus liberal or here in Jax they'd be a "compassionate" conservative.  Either way, none actually lived downtown or near downtown.  Go figure huh?

Hey come down to the food not bombs free food giveaway every Sunday on Main St near the Pearl between 1st and 2nd... I hear the group Beer not bombs will be joining them for a free beer giveaway this weekend. Afterall isn't free beer what the people want anyway?  And hey, for the Food Not Bombs people who came with the food last wekend, nice Lexus SUV!  Way to drive in from your comfy suburban enclave to mix with us urban pioneers...fill those SUV's with premium do ya?  effing bleeding hearts

[adamh0903]

I'm wondering why anyone in their right mind would open up a business downtown?  I mean I can understand if you're a non-profit catering to the needy or a church group doing the same, but anything else and you're really just asking for it.  If you try to run them off you're labelled a racist or a bigot.  If you ask for help from the city you're laughed at, so what is a business owner to do?  I'm guessing open out at the beach or in one of the cushy suburbs where all these do gooders live.  You know the do gooders, those that work at catering to the homeless live in suburban communities where they'd never stand for the stuff that happens downtown.

I live downtown and put up with this all the time.  See these groups with their "homeless" feedings like there's a bunch of hungry homeless downtown, Ha thats funny.  I happen to live near the headquarters for a group that caters to the homeless, so I decided to see where the people who work at this "charity" live.  Lets see, fruit cove, Mandarin, Avondale, Ponte Vedra.. yeah real bleeding heart types, you know the kind, the lexus liberal or here in Jax they'd be a "compassionate" conservative.  Either way, none actually lived downtown or near downtown.  Go figure huh?

Your post started out good, then ended up being about the most ignorant thing I have ever read on MJ. Just because somebody choses not to live downtown means they cant come down and help? Or atleast do what THEY think is helping? Or if they come down and help they better be driving a 1993 Nissan Sentra, is that what you are saying. I agree 100% with the post that said until we solve the issue the problem will not go away, and the issue is the fact that almost all Services for these people are located downtown. Move some of these services out of the core. But to judge people on what they do by where they live and what they drive is about the most small minded thing I have ever heard
Hey come down to the food not bombs free food giveaway every Sunday on Main St near the Pearl between 1st and 2nd... I hear the group Beer not bombs will be joining them for a free beer giveaway this weekend. Afterall isn't free beer what the people want anyway?  And hey, for the Food Not Bombs people who came with the food last wekend, nice Lexus SUV!  Way to drive in from your comfy suburban enclave to mix with us urban pioneers...fill those SUV's with premium do ya?  effing bleeding hearts

[adamh0903]

I'm wondering why anyone in their right mind would open up a business downtown?  I mean I can understand if you're a non-profit catering to the needy or a church group doing the same, but anything else and you're really just asking for it.  If you try to run them off you're labelled a racist or a bigot.  If you ask for help from the city you're laughed at, so what is a business owner to do?  I'm guessing open out at the beach or in one of the cushy suburbs where all these do gooders live.  You know the do gooders, those that work at catering to the homeless live in suburban communities where they'd never stand for the stuff that happens downtown.

I live downtown and put up with this all the time.  See these groups with their "homeless" feedings like there's a bunch of hungry homeless downtown, Ha thats funny.  I happen to live near the headquarters for a group that caters to the homeless, so I decided to see where the people who work at this "charity" live.  Lets see, fruit cove, Mandarin, Avondale, Ponte Vedra.. yeah real bleeding heart types, you know the kind, the lexus liberal or here in Jax they'd be a "compassionate" conservative.  Either way, none actually lived downtown or near downtown.  Go figure huh?

Hey come down to the food not bombs free food giveaway every Sunday on Main St near the Pearl between 1st and 2nd... I hear the group Beer not bombs will be joining them for a free beer giveaway this weekend. Afterall isn't free beer what the people want anyway?  And hey, for the Food Not Bombs people who came with the food last wekend, nice Lexus SUV!  Way to drive in from your comfy suburban enclave to mix with us urban pioneers...fill those SUV's with premium do ya?  effing bleeding hearts

Your post started out good, then ended up being about the most ignorant thing I have ever read on MJ. Just because somebody choses not to live downtown means they cant come down and help? Or atleast do what THEY think is helping? Or if they come down and help they better be driving a 1993 Nissan Sentra, is that what you are saying. I agree 100% with the post that said until we solve the issue the problem will not go away, and the issue is the fact that almost all Services for these people are located downtown. Move some of these services out of the core. But to judge people on what they do by where they live and what they drive is about the most small minded thing I have ever heard

[walter]

But to judge people on what they do by where they live and what they drive is about the most small minded thing I have ever heard

typical liberal demogogue, you must be the one from switzerland in the BMW station wagon.

[walter]

Just because somebody choses not to live downtown means they cant come down and help? Or atleast do what THEY think is helping?

and exactly what is coming downtown to hand out free food in styrofoam boxes (that are just going to end up in some gutter) doing to help?  Who's being helped other than the materialistic guilty conscience of the suburban nimby handing out the box?  I propose that by doing exactly that, which you feel is ignorant, is actually helping noone.  So go ahead and dismiss as ignorant that which you disagree, but next time you take a good look into the mirror I suspect that you'll see that which you ascribe to others.

[stephenc]

Walter, What do you consider helping?

[walter]

Walter, What do you consider helping?

well lets see... other cities have set up parking meters that accept money that goes to providing shelter to the homeless http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/247725  instead of giving a hand out the money in the meter is given to local shelters.

how about a hand up instead of a hand out.  Maybe all you suburbanites who want to "help" so much can come take one of the numerous homeless home with you, provide some real shelter and food, instead of the temporary makeshift feel good handouts that you provide now.  Come take some back to your neighborhood, set up a shelter there..... host a homeless event at your favorite shopping mecca, the Towne Center.  How about a homeless feeding out in your street.  Rent a bus, come and get a busload give them some food, clothes and let them see how the other side lives.  Let them use your bathroom instead of a business owners front door. 

Its easier to come down where people like me live and do your good deeds here rather than in your uber cloistered whitebread neighborhood where you don't have to actually live with them and can label those of us who do ignorant bigots... hey if thats what makes you feel good about yourself, go ahead come give your handouts and throw your labels we who have to deal with this daily aren't going to shut up!

[adamh0903]

Walter, What do you consider helping?

well lets see... other cities have set up parking meters that accept money that goes to providing shelter to the homeless http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/247725  instead of giving a hand out the money in the meter is given to local shelters.

how about a hand up instead of a hand out.  Maybe all you suburbanites who want to "help" so much can come take one of the numerous homeless home with you, provide some real shelter and food, instead of the temporary makeshift feel good handouts that you provide now.  Come take some back to your neighborhood, set up a shelter there.  How about a homeless feeding out in your street.  Rent a bus, come and get a busload give them some food, clothes and let them see how the other side lives.  Let them use your bathroom instead of a business owners front door. 

Its easier to come down where people like me live and do your good deeds here rather than in your uber cloistered whitebread neighborhood where you don't have to actually live with them and can label those of us who do ignorant bigots... hey if thats what makes you feel good about yourself, go ahead come give your handouts and throw your labels we who have to deal with this daily aren't going to shut up!

Kinda seems to me you offer no real solution, but would rather someone else "rent a bus" and take them away because YOU dont want to deal with them where YOU live, but would care less if someone else had to deal with them were they lived.

I have also re-read the posts nowhere has anyone told the people who deal with this issue daily to "shut-up" or have you been called a "ignorant bigot" like you say you have been labeled. I simply stated that the insults that you throw around based on what people drive and where they live and what they conisder "helping out" IS ignorant. Have you ever thought, maybe these people who live outside the city dont realize they are not helping out the situation by going into the core and just handing out food, have you ever tried to contact leaders, and get them to encourage social servies and organizations outside the citys core to do more than just hand out food, that there is more to the problem than hungry homless. Or have you already sterotyped all of us "suburbanites" as people who really dont care but what to satify our guilt
....by the way, I drive a KIA, not a BMW live in nassau county, not switzerland and have 4 homeless people who live in a tent in the woods 100 yards from by business who I see in here on a daily basis

[stephenc]

Walter, sounds as if you just dont want to deal with them yourself. I'm the first to say handouts dont work and i believe most are in the situation they're in because they refuse to better their lives. They choose to live they way they leave. But busing them from one location to another wont fix the problem and you acting like an ass on here to people who try to offer solutions while you offer no solutions of your own is just pointless. If any one if through labels its you buddy. Im sure they're a quite a few labels we could through at you based on the comments you speak about "white" surburanites but there is no need to go there.

[walter]

Kinda seems to me you offer no real solution, but would rather someone else "rent a bus" and take them away because YOU dont want to deal with them where YOU live, but would care less if someone else had to deal with them were they lived.

hey maybe you're not an ignoramus afterall!  and I'd be happy to rent that bus...as to the "real" solution if you find one let everyone know cause I'm pretty sure that every city that has this problem would love to know. Relying on me for the "real" solution is hilarious after all I'm ignant, you da one wit da schoolin Captn Kia.

Oh and those guys living in the tent down in the woods, like Matt Foley http://youtube.com/watch?v=lFPp5WfE-Yg

[walter]

Im sure they're a quite a few labels we could through at you based on the comments you speak about "white" surburanites but there is no need to go there.

lemme guess..... Jax public school grad?  gotcha.

[willworkforfood]

I am all for bus tickets to get them out of town. Or a work camp so they can get off drugs and get used to regular steady work. If one asks me for "30 cents", my typical answer is "if you have change for a 9mm. That slum downtown has to go. It only enabled drug dealers and pseudo activists who take advantage of the situation.