Ongoing commentary on demolishing historic structures.

[I-10east]

I'm gonna keep it real like I always do *bracing for impact* I think that I'm being reasonable here. I saw the Nawlins' pic of the shotgun houses on this thread, in comparison to Jax's. If I saw the NOLA's shotguns in dilapidated, but salvageable condition, I'll say save them like they rightfully did; I'm sorry, I just can't say that with these things on Lee Street.

I'm having that feeling inside my head like "C'mon, give me something!" Aesthetics? Nope. Notable historic significance (like A Phillip Randolph or somebody having lived in one of those houses)? Nope. Sitting on bricks? Yes. Totally isolated and out of place, due to the other shotguns that were torn down? Yes. A lot of money to fix these things? Yes. I'm sorry, I can't sugarcoat that. I've lived in a raggedy house on Nixon St (North Riverside) that looked better than these things if they were repaired, and that's saying alot! I've seen HabiJax housing that looks better.

I'm not gonna downplay that these houses were apart of the black community, but atleast have some kind of aesthetics if one was to go down that route alone. Hell, outhouses have been apart of communities, but no one is clamoring to keep them erect. Where's the money coming from to save them? If they are saved, then what? Are they just gonna be empty shells left to rot again? I'm not necessarily saying they should be torn down, but I'm FAR from saying that we should throw all sorts of money at these things only for the sake of being dull & old. As much as people hate the new Courthouse, atleast it serves a clear purpose.

*que Stephendare saying that I hate urban infill, and I like farmland and suburban cul de sacs etc* sigh.

[I-10east]

Gee by golly! Just forget everything that I said earlier Jax should save everything!! Those shotguns clearly have very significant architectural value, with that great ornate detail. They are true treasures. A few of the Tuskegee Airmen was some of their former residents. These buildings are even comparable to the 'Painted Ladies' in San Fran. I really do appreciate having my own thread inadvertently; That alone made me change my mind! Voila, I'm now a committed member of the "Save everything for the sake of being old" Club! Hope that you guys and gals have some elbow room.

[sheclown]

If I were in charge of the world, I'd mothball them, and then give them away to urban pioneers who have the means and the desire to live in them.   It could change the vibe of that area.

I'd have revert-er clauses to ensure that the house be brought to a CO within the mothball period.  I'd also add that the owner would have to live in the house for 5 years before s/he sells it or has to pay the city a large fee for the cost of the property.

I would abandon the idea of making a museum.  I'd give up on making them artist's studios (no matter how sexy that sounds).

I'd give them back to the people to be used for what they were built to be...housing.

I do agree that the city needs to remove the blighting influence and protect them -- which is why mothballing is important.

[sheclown]

Oh and I-10, certainly there is room in the house-hugger camp for you -- sarcasm and all

[thelakelander]

I like the residential revitalization concept you mention. Not everything needs to be restaurant, retail, mixed-used infill or entertainment in downtown.  I don't think COJ should attempt to maximize the profit of every parcel it owns in downtown either, especially if there are simple ways to utilize them to meet long term goals of a vibrant core.

20 years ago, Lakeland kicked off their downtown revitalization process by signing deals for Publix and Watkins Motor Lines to lease two blocks of vacant downtown city-owned buildings for something insane, like $1/year, for the promise of them filling the spots with some of their headquarter operations. Both of those buildings would have netted the city millions if they were RFPed off to the highest bidder.  However, that method doesn't necessary result in what's best for the surrounding area or long term goals of revitalization.

Everyone claims we need bodies residing in the area.  Allowing bodies to reside in existing residential building stock is a good start.

[m74reeves]

i agree that residential would probably be the best use for the shotgun trio. just not enough traffic to support some small businesses in there. cool if it were to be artist's residences, but without a working studio nearby, just doesn't make sense.

the city needs to realize that the greatest return on an investment isn't always financial. there needs to be an investment of goodwill here.

that entire block is either owned by the city or the clara white mission. if something could be done w/genovar, there would be a neat cluster of black heritage sites within a block.

funds to reno would depend on end use...boyer mentioned cip funding...hud home funding could be used (ownership or rental) if you wanted to get a chdo non profit involved (i've not lived here long enough to know if any of the nfp's have this type of expertise in rehab in general and rehab of historic properties specifically)...general rfp develop/sell to buyers w/the city putting strict restrictions on outcome, sales prices, etc if you wanted to target for affordable housing...not sure about historic pres grants if these were to be converted to housing (might could work if rental?), but that could be a possibility. just tossing some ideas out there...

[m74reeves]

another source of funds would be enterprise zone sales tax refund on building materials

[thelakelander]

I can't imagine those houses costing a ton (in the grand scheme of things) to rehabilitate if the land they sit on is tossed in as the "public subsidy". After all, shotguns are pretty basic in construction and don't consume a lot of square footage or elaborate building materials.

[Cheshire Cat]

I have to chime in here.  I think my head almost exploded when I read the intro to this thread posted by 1-10.  He says, "give me something here".  That is what has been at the heart of what happened to LaVilla since day one.  Several someones wanted "something" and they took it.  (Not mad with you 1-10 ).  It is clear that most folks don't get it when it comes to historic preservation and collective history.  I guess what gets to me these days is that too many people just can't see beyond the "surface" of a thing.  In this case the shotgun houses.  Yes, they are meek and simple, without much adornment and there is a historical reason for that.  They are not grand but they were and for many are still what "home" is and what "home" meant in the not too distant past.  They represent the lives of real people who walked through one of the most difficult and challenging times in racial history.  They represent a reality that too many would like to forget.  Truth in history is not always a comfortable thing but it is a very important thing.  The shotgun houses are structures, just buildings, but the lives they represent however meek and lacking in grandeur and the people who lived those lives deserve to have their history preserved and their story told.  There is a depth of humanity in that community, a soul that none of us should forget. 

This effort to save these structures at it's heart is not just about the structures.  It is about saving and remembering one of the most important parts of Jacksonville's history and it's origins as a "Black" city.  It is about saving something "real and tangible" to remind people of perhaps one of the saddest realities about human nature, Jacksonville politics and things that happen when a group of people who because of their race lose their homes and history through private agenda's based at the core in racist attitudes.  Those attitudes then expressed through the willful erasure of anything and everything "Black" in local history.  LaVilla represented perhaps the most positive and best years of Black history that Jacksonville may have had.  The outcroppings of racist mindset and attitude has manifest itself for decades through ignorance and apathy on the part of both the White and Black power players in Jacksonville.  Of course these actions are not unique to our city, but given the reality that currently one third of our citizenship is African American (the highest percentage in Florida) to ignore what is that history, infact our collective history is to hammer away at the foundation of Jacksonville itself and we can't afford to continue doing that.  So many folks are blind to the understanding that knowing ones history, the good and bad of it is how we progress.  For the Black community, especially the Black youth, being able to see and touch the period in history that was so powerful in changing the status and position of Blacks in our city and country is essential to their own pride and growth.  For non Black youth, it is the chance to see and realize the beauty and cultural depth of the Black community as opposed to the current "stereotypical" interpretations of today's social culture.  Like any group in society, there is the good, the bad and the ugly and that is never race specific as people have been taught to believe it might be.  It is a part of the human condition that is made manifest when people focus simply on the saddest part of the human experience and forget the glory that once was.  We here in Jacksonville need to stop demolishing our history and instead claim it.  Until we do that we will find ourselves floundering as a city, going from one elected official to another looking to solve a problem that they cannot solve.  We the citizens must do that and in order to do that we must face the entire truth of our own evolution as a city and community.  Then we must demand proper action of our elected officials and do everything we can to expose those who through private agenda's would destroy our collective past and impact our collective future. 

[Cheshire Cat]

I have already written to the entire City Council and copied the office of the Mayor sharing the sentiments above along with the reason's why the shotgun houses cannot be moved from LaVilla.  Logistically it is possible, but to remove them from the what remains of Jacksonville's "Harlem of the South" is not something to even consider.  By the way, "Shotgun Houses" were also called "Row Houses", which means they stood in a "row".  They are not collectibles to be scattered throughout Jacksonville as suggested by Warren Jones the other night.  They are part and parcel of a very historic community and need to stay where they are.  Their restoration and thoughtful historic restoration around them can help breath new life into downtown.

[theduvalprogressive]

My Great Grandfather W.H. Loftin who owned Loftin and Taylor Locksmiths on Main Street did the original locks on many of those houses in the area. I've often wonder why the city never considered declaring them a "commons", renovating the one's left, and establishing a small tribute to the neighborhood's past. I don't believe in keeping every old building in town but there should be at least some living point of historical reference left.

[Garden guy]

I find it hard to believe that if the city wont do it..why not a civic org. for renovation..theres got to be enough donated wood product and such to do this job..the work isnt that hard..any high school second year shop student can do this work..could this renovation spark a renaissance in craft homes? Are there any craftsman schools out there?

[Debbie Thompson]

Garden Guy, they need to be restored, yes, absolutely.  But they need to be restored by someone familiar with historic homes, how they are structured, and what they would have looked like when new.  A second year shop student would not know that.  Although it could be a good community service project for some of them if they were supervised by a contractor familiar with historic structures, and not necessarily the lowest bidder.  Otherwise, you have a very bad flip.  Not the idea.

But certainly with proper supervision, it would be a great project for a building trades program or even community participation.  I'll bet we could get a couple hundred people out there to help if we were allowed to do it.

[Cheshire Cat]

I find it hard to believe that if the city wont do it..why not a civic org. for renovation..theres got to be enough donated wood product and such to do this job..the work isnt that hard..any high school second year shop student can do this work..could this renovation spark a renaissance in craft homes? Are there any craftsman schools out there?

If only you knew....The Brewster Alumni were such a group.  They tried their best since 1969 to secure the hospital and were thwarted at every turn.  When the city got the Brewster and shotgun houses there were groups that wanted to be part of the restoration but were not "among" the connected insiders who had other agenda's for the structures. People inside the city even thwarted a full restoration of Brewster by a man with a television show like Bob Villa's Historic homes program.  He was poised to redo the structure for his program on his dime.  The greedy with other agenda's for the building stopped his offer in it's tracks.  The same folks stopped interested community groups in their tracks with the exception of the fraternity group (connected to the insiders) that drew down nearly a million tax dollars to leave us with a gutted Genover Hall building.  I do believe the city would be more flexible in accepting help these days.  With the designation just having been given it is now up to the community to reach out and the city to embrace their efforts.  There may already be money on had for the restoration (I know there is).  Moving the city to use it as it was meant to be used will be the next task.  The history of what went on and continues to go on in LaVilla is simply horrible in it's greed and damage to the community.  That's the sad fact.

[Cheshire Cat]

To Debbie's point.  The structures do need profession renovation.  The public and civic groups can step up to fit them out on the interior and definitely for exterior landscaping and up keep, which would be ideal for the shotgun houses and the Brewster Hospital.