Instead of Corporations, Why Not Invest in People?

[JayBird]

If necessary, yes I could function and survive on minimum wage. As a matter of fact for my sociology class one of our assignments was to determine how little we could live off of. The point of the lesson was to teach us that if taught, people could survive without any government assistance. It was determined that it would be possible to live in small comfort off of $100/wk if housing and food were provided. Bump it to $225 and make them pay for housing costs. However, I would have to dramatically change my life style. And I wouldn't stay there for long. Keep in mind this topic of conversation started by someone saying it is impossible to live off minimum wage and should be rewarded for longevity not actual productivity, which I think has been proven inaccurate by others. 

As for happiness, it depends on the individual. It cannot be truly quantified because I get happiness from helping others and seeing the product of my work. Someone else may get happy by sitting home and counting the money they're shoving in their mattress. Another may be happy just to see a sunrise. However, if one was worried about your future, about retirement, about paying bills long after you produce labor of some sort to pay for all those, and I mean truly worried, not the complaining rigamarole of someone's personality, than they would do what they could to change that. They would learn something or talk to someone or move to something that they can make more money in.

As for my personal doctrine, I had to fight for everything I earned in life and loved every minute of it and gladly continue to do so. And when I come home on weekends and work with these families, I whole heartedly adopt the "teach a man to fish" doctrine. Whenever I approach any conversation of government subsidy, I feel it should be a helping hand. I feel that once you have received aid for a period of 6 months, you should not receive it for 24 months. Slowly Florida is coming to this, but it is out of financial necessity, not the knowledge of the actual reality.

Disability, well most whom claim it still need another source of income. The way the system is currently set up in Florida a perfectly healthy, workforce capable single mother (25 y/o) of two (5,7 y/o) will make the equivalent of a full time job paying $7.85/hr from the State. A man whom was working under the table and gets injured on the job with no coverage will recieve the equivalent of a full time job at $4.78/hr. So why should the young woman try to educate herself or get a good (or any) job? After all if she is happy watching TV and talking with neighbors all day, that is her right I suppose. Until she demands that she needs more to sustain quality of life (because, you know, shes been collecting for years now she deserves a raise) then it becomes every taxpayers issue.

[JayBird]

possible to live in small comfort off of $100/wk if housing and food were provided. Bump it to $225 and make them pay for housing

Food and 75 dollars a week in shelter?

No it was assumed that federal benefits and soup kitchens would provide nutrition. Adding the $125 a week was purely to pay for housing costs on their own.

What if they get sick? Or arrested? Or robbed? Or a car runs over their groceries?

Or what if they get hit by the ice cream truck? Those same whatifs apply to everyone. I have a close friend who makes around $125k a year, no insurance and lives paycheck to paycheck. So arguably minimum wage doesn't really have exclusivity over this hypothesis. That is an argument for the education of financial responsibility, not just those paid minimum wage.

Can they live off that little in the real world or was that a thought experiment in a college class?

No we did it in the real world. For 90 calendar days we could only use the funds they provided and food they supplied. we we had to arrange housing, transportation to and from campus (our "job") and had to document not only what we spent money on but also what we spent time on while the other half monitored us to keep everyone honest. About 75 started the project, only 8 of us made it to completion. Which I think goes to show that we are easily caught up in the trappings of life that we think we need

In any case, that is still subsidized at subsistence.  And you can live off of almost nothing.  Can you feed your children and comply with the laws requiring their care and education on it?

Yes, you can. Provided you only have two or less children. If you have three or more, then you will require higher pay, govt subsidy, second income in form of another job or another person contributing.

Can they get a college education?

Yes, and this is what most do not realize. In the state of Florida alone, approximately 20,000 under 21 people are provided a college education at no cost to them or taxpayers. Many private endowments and philanthropic societies exist just with that explicit purpose. However, you need to have kept good grades all through high school, and that is not so easy if you're trying to help mom put food on the table. So is it possible, yes. Is it realistic, not in my opinion. On paper, yes it is doable but it won't be easy. Of course, the big payback, and the reason there is so much help to go to college is that once you have a degree you won't be making minimum wage for very long, if at all. Which then breaks that cycle of living off subsistence from taxpayers.

And by disability, im not talking about the government program, I mean at some point you are going to get too old to work.  And you may get too sick to work.  Eventually, if you live long enough, you will be physically unable to make any more money. 

In that scenario, if you were working you (so far) have social security you paid into, if you worked 35 years at minimum wage then retired, you would actually get a pay increase. Of course I have pointed out that is negated by the probability that your medical bills will increase as well as others because instead of being at work you are now home using utilities all day.

Can you provide for those things on minimum wage?

twice minimum wage?

Three times?

Or will you be forced to borrow the money and saddle someone else with the financial obligation?

It is possible to survive on minimum wage and support 1-2 children or 1 adult. However, this does not happen because no politician would ever cut off their knees like that. I've seen numerous studies that show the majority I people whom vote in elections make less than $40k individually a year, so even if they only come in for coffee and donuts, they are giving that politician his job. Plus it easy to maneuver money to special projects from a fund for the poor than one say to rebuild an interstate or bridge.

Hypotheticals aside, yes it is not only possible it is very doable. Now I can understand ones inability to understand because we can only evaluate life through our own experiences, so what some consider needs others consider extravagant luxuries. Where you draw the line only you can say, and it can only apply to you based in your beliefs and what life has taught you.

Jaybird.  Im trying to figure out if you think that you by yourself--meaning with the aid of no one else can function in todays society for minumum wage and no government programs?

Yes you can, as I stated above. But the reason most do not, is why should they? The government happily provides them funding and has poor oversight.

Also what would you speculate are the odds for long term happiness in not providing for funding for old age and disability?  Can you be happy and totally dependent on everyone else around you?

Once again, how do classify happiness? If someone is not happy because they depend on others than they will change that themselves, thus removing that group from the conversation. Those that don't care are perfectly happy living off of others because the others permit it.

[GoldenEst82]

What types of businesses do you and your husband own?

He has a custom automotive shop- its part time/hobbyist right now, because he has a full time job as a fabricator. Once his shop is able to support his half of the bills- he will leave his full time job.

I have an online only thrift store- but I only started it two months ago, and it really hasn't gotten off the ground. 

I have been a SAHM since losing my (awesome) job in 2009. My youngest son (2010) was born with Downs Syndrome, and I have only been able to afford to be home with him because of his SSI. I started my business to be able to get off of assistance when he goes to Pre-K. (in Dec, when he turns 3)

I should also explain that my husband and I are not actually married, but we are in a very long term committed partnership, and quite honestly "boyfriend" does not have the appropriate gravitas to describe it.

[If_I_Loved_you]

What types of businesses do you and your husband own?

He has a custom automotive shop- its part time/hobbyist right now, because he has a full time job as a fabricator. Once his shop is able to support his half of the bills- he will leave his full time job.

I have an online only thrift store- but I only started it two months ago, and it really hasn't gotten off the ground. 

I have been a SAHM since losing my (awesome) job in 2009. My youngest son (2010) was born with Downs Syndrome, and I have only been able to afford to be home with him because of his SSI. I started my business to be able to get off of assistance when he goes to Pre-K. (in Dec, when he turns 3)

I should also explain that my husband and I are not actually married, but we are in a very long term committed partnership, and quite honestly "boyfriend" does not have the appropriate gravitas to describe it.

Instead of "boyfriend" this may be better for you "Common law husband."

[GoldenEst82]

 Per the State Legislature Website
"741.211 Common-law marriages void.—No common-law marriage entered into after January 1, 1968, shall be valid."

It is just easier and warrants less explanation, than say, Domestic Partner; which is really the most accurate verb for the situation.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Per the State Legislature Website
"741.211 Common-law marriages void.—No common-law marriage entered into after January 1, 1968, shall be valid."

It is just easier and warrants less explanation, than say, Domestic Partner; which is really the most accurate verb for the situation.

Amen! 

[JayBird]

Today is scheduled for more protests around the country. This was the scene this morning around 6:45am on my way into work at midtown McDonald's.

[peestandingup]

Minimum Wage Was Once Enough To Keep a Family of 3 Out of Poverty

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/12/minimum-wage-was-once-enough-keep-family-3-out-poverty/7773/

[fsquid]

maybe they should be protesting the current admin's policies which continue to widen the income gap and destroy the middle class?

[peestandingup]

maybe they should be protesting the current admin's policies which continue to widen the income gap and destroy the middle class?

It didn't start with him, nor will it end with him. This is a systematic failure.

[fsquid]

maybe they should be protesting the current admin's policies which continue to widen the income gap and destroy the middle class?

Are you sure it isnt also causing heightened volcanic activity and sunspots?

no clue, I don't keep up with science.

[FSBA]

Hope they enjoy ordering McyDs from a kiosk in a few years

[BridgeTroll]

It is already happening...

http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/12/04/tablets-waiters-invade-two-big-chains

[Traveller]

I went to a bar in DC last year that had beer taps built into the tables.  Customers could pour their own refills, while a flowmeter measured how much beer was poured throughout the evening.  My first thought was "Wow, this could be dangerous after the first couple of rounds."  But now that I think about it, I suppose it also has the side effect of increasing sales while keeping labor costs down.

http://dcredline.com/content/table-taps