Khan interested in developing shipyards

[copperfiend]

Maybe I missed it, but will the development be more than a "covered practice facility"?  While I suppose that's better than empty land, I don't see how it adds much in the way of urban vibrancy to the area.

From everything I have heard and read, the covered practice facility will just be a part of it.

[downtownbrown]

The Shipyards is worth $30 million, and that number will increase with the improving economy. When our city is at a point that we can't maintain cut our grass, fix our potholes, or keep an adequate number of police officers, are we really prepared to give a billionaire another $30 million gift? Or pay him to take it?

Look, I like Khan, he's been great for the Jags and for the city. But the city and the Mayor need to show some negotiation ability. They can't just keep writing Khan checks with taxpayer money.

it's worth what someone is willing to pay.  Giving it away is the equivalent of a long term lease, since the city will benefit from the increased tax revenue, and the attraction of more investment and more revenue. 

[edjax]

The Shipyards is worth $30 million, and that number will increase with the improving economy. When our city is at a point that we can't maintain cut our grass, fix our potholes, or keep an adequate number of police officers, are we really prepared to give a billionaire another $30 million gift? Or pay him to take it?

Look, I like Khan, he's been great for the Jags and for the city. But the city and the Mayor need to show some negotiation ability. They can't just keep writing Khan checks with taxpayer money.

I believe Anything Brown may agree to would have to then be approved by the City Council, correct?

[Tacachale]

The Shipyards is worth $30 million, and that number will increase with the improving economy. When our city is at a point that we can't maintain cut our grass, fix our potholes, or keep an adequate number of police officers, are we really prepared to give a billionaire another $30 million gift? Or pay him to take it?

Look, I like Khan, he's been great for the Jags and for the city. But the city and the Mayor need to show some negotiation ability. They can't just keep writing Khan checks with taxpayer money.

Honest question Tacachale, what gets you to a number of $30mm?
The last sale was almost at the exact peak of the real estate boom market for $7.2mm. It certainly hasn't increased in value 4 fold in that time.
That 7.2mm number is just from the property appraiser, I do not know if that was the full actual sales price, or other factors that may be involved. But my opinion is that if we are holding out for 30mm then the city will still own that property when we are all dead. 

Someone on here must be in commercial real estate or development to opine on it. Where is Simms when you need him.

The property appraiser assessed the Shipyards at $28.6 million as of a few months ago. It's true any property is really only worth what someone will buy it for, but that tells us nothing here, as the city has made no real effort to do anything with the property the entire time Brown has been in office.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

The property appraiser assessed the Shipyards at $28.6 million as of a few months ago. It's true any property is really only worth what someone will buy it for, but that tells us nothing here, as the city has made no real effort to do anything with the property the entire time Brown has been in office.

Follow up question:  Has Brown's lack of doing anything to the property cost the city, advanced the city or neither?

Obviously, there's much pollution remediation that has to take place before anything viable can be done.  We've already thrown how many millions down the drain trying to woo in private development?  In the grand scheme of things, it is in the city's best interest to clean the property and allow someone to develop it.

Why not allow a person with not only  the financial resources, but a legitimate motivation to develop it now?  And it's not just Khan.  As Ken said above, Khan is the guy with the money and vision;  he hired a guy in Lamping, with the proven track record of developing just this sort of project.  It's all stadium improvements.  It's all an attempt to drive revenue at the stadium.  If it happens to become a destination, great.  Then people will want to flock to the area and the other developers waiting in the wings will jump on the bandwagon.

If I had a couple hundred thousand laying around, I'd be purchasing property now in the Talleyrand area.

[RattlerGator]

Look, I like Khan, he's been great for the Jags and for the city. But the city and the Mayor need to show some negotiation ability. They can't just keep writing Khan checks with taxpayer money.

On this we totally agree, Tacachale.
Why is the city forking over millions to this guy but complaining that we can't pay our cops or afford to build a transportation system thats worth a damn?

Damn, Stephen. Damn, Tacachale. Negotiating ability? Are y'all for real !?! Nativistic much ? ? ? The negotiations with Shad Khan have demonstrated some of the best, forward-thinking negotiating instincts from Jax city officials ever. Y'all are beginning to sound like the fools way back when who insisted we didn't need the University of North Florida because J.U was sufficient locally and UF was close enough!

[I-10east]

I can't believe people in this city are still bent out of shape about Khan and the shipyards site. KenFSU you make very valid points above and I agree whole heartedly that if it takes gifting Khan the property then that's the best move the city could make. I don't know if people understand or overlook the fact that the site will be PRIVATELY FUNDED! FULLY PRIVATELY FUNDED. The city won't have to contribute a DIME of your taxpayer dollars and will reap the tax, financial, and image lifting benefits of such a world class development.  I mean when was the last time a billionaire rolled in town and offered to throw our city on his/her shoulders, offering to change the perception of the town by developing a toxic waste of space while asking for ZERO dollars in incentives. I mean we cant even get a Jimmy Johns subs to open up shop downtown without asking for dollars which could hv been dispersed to local upstart businesses. Sure the city has to pay for Cleanup but guess what..the city owns it currently and are responsible for it. What some of you believe we have to gain by sitting on the property and begging someone to come in and save us I don't know. There's definitely more to lose if we don't jump on this train while it's here. Yapping about potholes, libraries, police funding etc. shouldn't even be brought up in this discussion because the money from the sale of the shipyards wouldnt help a city hand- cuffed by its own self imposed ridiculously low tax rates! People complain about wanting nicer things but don't want to pay for it. This is worth the price of paying. Give the man the land and let the Cowford residents continue to sulk about scoreboards while the rest of us Jacksonvillians bask in the glory of a reenergized downtown.

+100

[Marle Brando]

The Shipyards is worth $30 million, and that number will increase with the improving economy. When our city is at a point that we can't maintain cut our grass, fix our potholes, or keep an adequate number of police officers, are we really prepared to give a billionaire another $30 million gift? Or pay him to take it?

Look, I like Khan, he's been great for the Jags and for the city. But the city and the Mayor need to show some negotiation ability. They can't just keep writing Khan checks with taxpayer money.

On this we totally agree, Tacachale.
Why is the city forking over millions to this guy but complaining that we can't pay our cops or afford to build a transportation system thats worth a damn?

Now where is this invisible money coming from? Where is it stated that the city is PAYING Khan to develop the property? Paying for the cleanup is not equivalent to cash given to develop property, that is called business. This is an appropriate business transaction appropriate to this particular parcel and circumstances, not all. Are we so caught up in ourselves that we should expect someone to pay for the land and cleanup and development of the land and construction of the buildings and attractions without ANYTHING in return?? Gifting Khan the land is the LEAST the city could do and the MOST it could reap simultaneously  plain and simple. He has financed the Laura Trio, went more than half with the city on TOTAL recent upgrades to our (city stadium in which he DOES NOT OWN) now world class stadium and now some of you want to sell salt to a slug. Face it nobody wants the property but Khan. No one will develop it privately but Khan. No one has shown his dedication to fast tracking ideas and results and delivers better than Khan recently. It's never good to allow personal feelings to override common sense. I get the sense that some here don't know when to remove the political cap and wear the thinking one sometimes. We are not LA, NY, Miami, or even Charlotte. We are not world class yet. We ARE the city 10yrs ago that was ridiculed and exposed for what it lacks during super bowl. Let's face it, we are not the hottest date at senior prom. In fact, we don't even have a date to prom. But there's this swagged out guy in algebra class 3rd period that thinks we're hot and is actively courting us. Let's give it a shot guys is all I'm saying, this one looks like a keeper

[Rynjny]

The Shipyards is worth $30 million, and that number will increase with the improving economy. When our city is at a point that we can't maintain cut our grass, fix our potholes, or keep an adequate number of police officers, are we really prepared to give a billionaire another $30 million gift? Or pay him to take it?

Look, I like Khan, he's been great for the Jags and for the city. But the city and the Mayor need to show some negotiation ability. They can't just keep writing Khan checks with taxpayer money.

On this we totally agree, Tacachale.
Why is the city forking over millions to this guy but complaining that we can't pay our cops or afford to build a transportation system thats worth a damn?

Now where is this invisible money coming from? Where is it stated that the city is PAYING Khan to develop the property? Paying for the cleanup is not equivalent to cash given to develop property, that is called business. This is an appropriate business transaction appropriate to this particular parcel and circumstances, not all. Are we so caught up in ourselves that we should expect someone to pay for the land and cleanup and development of the land and construction of the buildings and attractions without ANYTHING in return?? Gifting Khan the land is the LEAST the city could do and the MOST it could reap simultaneously  plain and simple. He has financed the Laura Trio, went more than half with the city on TOTAL recent upgrades to our (city stadium in which he DOES NOT OWN) now world class stadium and now some of you want to sell salt to a slug. Face it nobody wants the property but Khan. No one will develop it privately but Khan. No one has shown his dedication to fast tracking ideas and results and delivers better than Khan recently. It's never good to allow personal feelings to override common sense. I get the sense that some here don't know when to remove the political cap and wear the thinking one sometimes. We are not LA, NY, Miami, or even Charlotte. We are not world class yet. We ARE the city 10yrs ago that was ridiculed and exposed for what it lacks during super bowl. Let's face it, we are not the hottest date at senior prom. In fact, we don't even have a date to prom. But there's this swagged out guy in algebra class 3rd period that thinks we're hot and is actively courting us. Let's give it a shot guys is all I'm saying, this one looks like a keeper

+10000000

[fieldafm]

Where is it stated that the city is PAYING Khan to develop the property?

It has not been made public what the City's deal is yet (that will happen in two weeks), but they initially asked the city to pay for remediation (reasonable), pay for a Riverwalk extension (reasonable) and give them the land for free (not reasonable). In addition to COJ paying for site cleanup and public access (aka, the Riverwalk), we the taxpayers are still paying interest on bond debt related to the Shipyards property from previous failed redevelopment efforts (there have been three so far).

COJ has yet to put an RFP out nationally for the site. Meaning they haven't marketed the site for sale to anyone else. The only other person that asked was Intuition Ale Works (for a small portion of the very large overall site).. who were shot down.

[Marle Brando]

Where is it stated that the city is PAYING Khan to develop the property?

It has not been made public what the City's deal is yet (that will happen in two weeks), but they initially asked the city to pay for remediation (reasonable), pay for a Riverwalk extension (reasonable) and give them the land for free (not reasonable). In addition to COJ paying for site cleanup and public access (aka, the Riverwalk), we the taxpayers are still paying interest on bond debt related to the Shipyards property from previous failed redevelopment efforts (there have been three so far).

COJ has yet to put an RFP out nationally for the site

The city is and has been relieved of the bond debt since 2005 when Landmar agreed to take over the bond payments the city incurred from the failed Trilegacy deal. LandMar made 20mil in improvements to the land and paid 13.8mil towards the city bond debt. In 2009 LandMar declared bankruptcy and subsequently the land valued at 20mil in 09' was reverted back to the city. You see, LandMar was responsible for the bond debt after the deal was signed, not COJ. After bankruptcy court and five years worth of legal wrangling, the debt was settled and the city received an award of 13.4 million for its investment in the failed development. Why was this 13.4 million not used towards a bond payment of any sort when awarded and put into a special account? Because no bond is owed. That issue was dissolved along with other obligations during LandMar's bankruptcy.
And LOL at RFP. Really RFP?? Good luck WANTING for a sweeter deal, free of city required incentives. In 2001 the city approved 37mil in incentives to Trilegacy, and approved another 3mil towards public improvements when it signed the deal with LandMar. So let's SELL the land to a new developer, PAY for cleanup, AND THEN be on tap for more incentives I'm sure the new developer will in turn ask for. THAT would require another bond backed debt on the city's books. So what exactly is the gain in waiting for someone to buy the property, losing tax dollars that would be generated in the meantime, only to turn around and pay out incentives to another unknown entity. Khan has a proven track record of getting things done. IF in the event Khan fails to lay a single brick on site, the city would have lost nothing. We have everything to gain by doing the smart deal and signing over the land.

[finehoe]

Maybe I missed it, but will the development be more than a "covered practice facility"?  While I suppose that's better than empty land, I don't see how it adds much in the way of urban vibrancy to the area.

From everything I have heard and read, the covered practice facility will just be a part of it.

So what does the rest of it consist of?  Seems to me that information needs to be shared before we start talking about price tags and possible subsidies.

[edjax]

Maybe I missed it, but will the development be more than a "covered practice facility"?  While I suppose that's better than empty land, I don't see how it adds much in the way of urban vibrancy to the area.

From everything I have heard and read, the covered practice facility will just be a part of it.

So what does the rest of it consist of?  Seems to me that information needs to be shared before we start talking about price tags and possible subsidies.

Well just maybe that is what will be shared when they unveil their plans. Seems to make sense to me.

[KenFSU]

Maybe I missed it, but will the development be more than a "covered practice facility"?  While I suppose that's better than empty land, I don't see how it adds much in the way of urban vibrancy to the area.

The covered practice facility will be part of a much larger development.

Whenever Lamping discusses the potential development, he always puts a heavy emphasis on mixed-use.

Based on what he's said in the past, I think we can expect to see:

1) Residential
2) Retail
3) Dining/Nightlife
4) A hotel
5) A marina
6) A covered practice field
7) The incorporation of the USS Adams
8 ) Some sort of a signature "attraction."
9) Public, riverfront space

Jax Business Journal:

Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Khan is close to presenting a plan for a mixed-used development at the city-owned riverfront Shipyards property, according to Jaguars President Mark Lamping.

The plan, which should be submitted to the city in coming months — hopefully no later than early next year, Lamping said — would have Khan be the master developer of the site. It would include a mix of housing, retail and restaurants and bars, a hotel and marina and "some sort of attraction."

"We believe it continues to play a very important role in our objective of assisting to bring more residents and more jobs to Downtown and to enhance the experience for everyone who visits the complex," Lamping said Wednesday.

Jax Daily Record:

The Jaguars envision plans to redevelop the vacant 40-acre Northbank Riverfront property as a mixed-use housing and retail project to include public space, entertainment and tourist attractions. The property is owned by the city.

Lamping said in July the mixed-use development would be designed to support people living Downtown, working Downtown and visiting Downtown, "and doing it in a way that provides great support to the sports complex."

The Shipyards property is near EverBank Field, the home of the Jaguars, and Khan has expressed a need to act quickly on the development.

Pending due diligence and resolution of environmental issues on the property, which housed a working shipyards until it closed in 1992, the Jaguars expect to make the proposal.

The city Procurement Division issued a Request for Proposals for environmental consulting, testing and operations and maintenance services for the Jacksonville Shipyards.

Proposals were due Aug. 20 but that has been tentatively extended to Sept. 24.

Lamping said Wednesday the delay in the proposal due date has no impact on the due diligence.

He said in June if the Jaguars pursued development, they envision serving as the master developer for a project to include rental apartments, entertainment, retail and a marina.

It would include a park-like setting that includes a multipurpose facility that could be used by the Jaguars or, for example, visiting teams to the TaxSlayer Bowl that need a practice facility.

[Tacachale]

^See, it really is that simple.