Khan interested in developing shipyards

[thelakelander]

To Lake's comments, the lack of connectivity is real and the city would like to address it (IMHO).  Khan also knows its a blight sitting right next to his most valuable asset. So either COJ get off its collective booty and get the mayor motivated or let Khan run with it and finish his "thousand step" journey he proposes.

Everyone wants vibrancy but there appears is a major problem in most not realizing the importance of connectivity at the human scale level.  I agree that every journey begins with a step but some journey to success can be accomplished in 50 or 100 steps instead of a 1,000. Historically, when it comes to downtown redevelopment, Jax tends to make things a lot more time consuming, difficult and expensive than they have to be.

Personally, I'm not sure there's much one can do with the Shipyards that would generate the type of foot traffic popular waterfronts like Chattanooga and Baltimore's Inner Harbor are known for. The immediate (say, in less than 10 years) opportunity for spill over economic activity on surrounding properties and neighborhoods (especially to the north) is simply not there. A lot more is needed then just building stuff on the property itself. What happens to the jail site, Maxwell House, Berkman, Metropolitan Park, the parking lots around EverBank Field, makes or breaks that site.

Then even if you do find success, all you've most likely done is siphoned off traffic and shifted activity for the core of the Northbank. You could spend a fraction of the costs of placing the same uses in targeted sites in the heart of the city and urban waterfront and build a pretty exciting, compact place in a third of the time and effort it will truly take to fully integrate that site. I've heard a ton of ideas for the Shipyards site but outside of a Jags practice facility, most proposed ideas are better suited for the many parking lots within short walking distance of the river between the Acosta and Hyatt. I'm not a fan of an aquarium but even that type of attraction makes more sense in a spot like the parking lot separating RCB, MOSH and Friendship Fountain or in one of the lots next to Omni. For those who want a place to lay in grass along the riverfront, a redeveloped Landing and Hogan Street could work. Such uses could also work on the Landing's east lot between Hyatt and the Main Street Bridge.

Nevertheless, maybe the Inner Harbor-style type of vibrancy isn't really desired and all we truly want is just to put something/anything on that abandoned industrial site, hell or high water, simply because it's been snake bitten for so long? Or maybe it's time to really drill down what we want our waterfront to be and figure out how to properly implement that vision/dream?

[Rynjny]

So you guys don't like an aquarium, the SeaGlass tower project, and Khans Proposed project....who's plan do you guy like anyway? maybe you guys just like it to sit there empty for years to come..

[Keith-N-Jax]

A practice field can be used for other events as well not just practice. Some very short sighted views on here. Guess we should let it sit empty. After all, there's a long line of developers waiting right?

[Tacachale]

^Or perhaps there's just a level of healthy skepticism about handing valuable public property over to the first person who asks nicely.

[Keith-N-Jax]

No one said he should get it for free, again let it sit empty then for a few more decades while everyone complains about a vibrant city, lol. Some of you are worst than the people who run this city! Like I said there's a long line of developers waiting for this riverfront property.

[thelakelander]

So you guys don't like an aquarium, the SeaGlass tower project, and Khans Proposed project....who's plan do you guy like anyway? maybe you guys just like it to sit there empty for years to come..

If this is in response to my post, I don't think you got what I just wrote. I personally could care less about anyone's plan for the Shipyards. If North Florida Shipyards wanted to expand and bid on the property I still wouldn't lose much sleep.  I don't see site as a major initial priority in turning DT Jax around. Fill it with whatever you want and all the problems plaguing the Northbank are still present. In addition, the under utilized riverfront at the core of the city is still just that....underutilized.  It's not about uses, it's about connectivity and getting the most ROI and spill over economic opportunity from public investments, for me.

The city/community need to figure out what they want in an urban waterfront and implement that plan. Whatever comes should align with that vision and be an incremental step in achieving that community goal. When private sector development is desired, issue RFPs and use that money to fund public improvements as opposed to giving land away.

With that said, the fact that many are sitting around waiting for a grand savior to swoop in with their own visions, answers, proposals, and money is actually another problem. That's not coordination. That's a piecemeal approach that typically leads to the type of environment we've been trying to bring life too.

[Rynjny]

No one said he should get it for free, again let it sit empty then for a few more decades while everyone complains about a vibrant city, lol. Some of you are worst than the people who run this city! Like I said there's a long line of developers waiting for this riverfront property.

+100

[thelakelander]

No one said he should get it for free...

Umm. Actually the rumor going around town is that there is a desire for free land. Hopefully, it's not true.

[vicupstate]

Can someone give an example of a practice field that is used by other parties/uses?  I'm not a big NFL follower, so their may be many that I just don't know of, but it would be the first I have heard of it.  Given the reputation of the NFL, such a facility would charge an arm and a leg too.

I agree with Lake, that the true urban core (Northbank) needs to come first.  A thriving compact core would drive up the value of the Shipyards anyway as it would be the 'next frontier' once the empty lots in the core have returned to viable use.  The Shipyards site might be for the next decade. Filling it now with single-purpose facilities is probably a bad move. 

[Ocklawaha]

With that said, the fact that many are sitting around waiting for a grand savior to swoop in with their own visions, answers, proposals, and money is actually another problem. That's not coordination. That's a piecemeal approach that typically leads to the type of environment we've been trying to bring life too.

Funny lake, this gave me a vision of the infamous tornado swarm of May 3, 1999, out in front of Oklahoma Search and Rescue... I could just image trying CPR on a victim where the head is on one side of the street, and the body scattered in various other locations! This is exactly what JAX has been doing at least since the end of mayor Jake's last term.

[ProjectMaximus]

No one said he should get it for free, again let it sit empty then for a few more decades while everyone complains about a vibrant city, lol. Some of you are worst than the people who run this city! Like I said there's a long line of developers waiting for this riverfront property.

I get the gist of what you're saying and few would argue with the fact that something useful is better than nothing. However, subscribing to Lake's theory of urban revitalization (which I'm sure is pretty widely accepted), the most successful path toward vibrancy is connectivity and synergy in a concentrated area. As it pertains to the Shipyards, there is no sense in anyone pouring money down the drain to implement any use for that property that won't be sustainable and won't add any vibrancy to the area. Downtown has suffered long enough from investment that hasn't created any vibrancy, whats the sense in enabling more wasted funds, regardless of whose money it is? Even if Khan paid full market price for the land so that no public interest was wasted, I'd still want his money to be used effectively. I don't want anybody wasting their money...eg, buying expensive waterfront property to build something that would be equally or more beneficial elsewhere.

[KenFSU]

Can someone give an example of a practice field that is used by other parties/uses?

I would suggest that the facility could serve as both a Jags practice field and a home stadium for the Jacksonville Armada, but soccer really isn't meant to be played indoors.

[Gamblor]

Everyone seems to be missing that there are two practice fields in the plans. One outdoor, one indoor. I'm all for incorporating the Jags into the site but practice fields there is retarded. They'll have to fenced with the same black siding the current fields have (to prevent snooping by other teams) so it won't really make any difference to the players, in terms of it being a lure to free agents and such. I think the team would be much better off looking at some of the developments that Euro soccer teams have done, with museums, play facilities for young ones, team centered bars, ect and all in a multi-use setting. To be honest though the plans in the State of the Franchise are highly disappointing. After Barnett and some of the other Khan investments I thought he might be the sugar daddy we need, but thinking its a good idea to segregate part of the shipyards for practice facilities gives me heavy doubts....

[thelakelander]

There's no sugar daddy coming to Jax's rescue.

[ProjectMaximus]

I think Khan might be the sugar daddy, but the implication with a sugar daddy is that he's getting a lil somethin in return.
Yes, we have to be able to offer some benefit for him as well.