Khan interested in developing shipyards

[Noone]

To Lake's comments, the lack of connectivity is real and the city would like to address it (IMHO).  Khan also knows its a blight sitting right next to his most valuable asset. So either COJ get off its collective booty and get the mayor motivated or let Khan run with it and finish his "thousand step" journey he proposes.

Everyone wants vibrancy but there appears is a major problem in most not realizing the importance of connectivity at the human scale level.  I agree that every journey begins with a step but some journey to success can be accomplished in 50 or 100 steps instead of a 1,000. Historically, when it comes to downtown redevelopment, Jax tends to make things a lot more time consuming, difficult and expensive than they have to be.

Personally, I'm not sure there's much one can do with the Shipyards that would generate the type of foot traffic popular waterfronts like Chattanooga and Baltimore's Inner Harbor are known for. The immediate (say, in less than 10 years) opportunity for spill over economic activity on surrounding properties and neighborhoods (especially to the north) is simply not there. A lot more is needed then just building stuff on the property itself. What happens to the jail site, Maxwell House, Berkman, Metropolitan Park, the parking lots around EverBank Field, makes or breaks that site.

Then even if you do find success, all you've most likely done is siphoned off traffic and shifted activity for the core of the Northbank. You could spend a fraction of the costs of placing the same uses in targeted sites in the heart of the city and urban waterfront and build a pretty exciting, compact place in a third of the time and effort it will truly take to fully integrate that site. I've heard a ton of ideas for the Shipyards site but outside of a Jags practice facility, most proposed ideas are better suited for the many parking lots within short walking distance of the river between the Acosta and Hyatt. I'm not a fan of an aquarium but even that type of attraction makes more sense in a spot like the parking lot separating RCB, MOSH and Friendship Fountain or in one of the lots next to Omni. For those who want a place to lay in grass along the riverfront, a redeveloped Landing and Hogan Street could work. Such uses could also work on the Landing's east lot between Hyatt and the Main Street Bridge.

Nevertheless, maybe the Inner Harbor-style type of vibrancy isn't really desired and all we truly want is just to put something/anything on that abandoned industrial site, hell or high water, simply because it's been snake bitten for so long? Or maybe it's time to really drill down what we want our waterfront to be and figure out how to properly implement that vision/dream?

Connectivity? How about our river and it's tributaries especially in this new CRA/DIA zone?

We talk about a sugar daddy. Who is the sugar pimp?

At the 5/13/14 Jacksonville city council meeting new legislation was introduced 2014-305 and I asked council president Bill Gulliford if he could have it sent to the Jacksonville Waterways Commission that was meeting the next day. it didn't happen. The next day the chair of Waterways Don Redman didn't bring it to the attention of the JWC members. The concern for everyone should be will this be fast tracked and miss an opportunity to cycle through Waterways. is this legislation positive or negative for this 4.8 mile new waterfront zone that includes the Shipyards property?

Here is just one example. And Scott Wilson, Tony Allegretti, Paul Crawford feel free to jump in here at any time and this is Pre Aundra Wallace the new CEO of the DIA.

Not this years boat show that took place at the same time as One Spark. But last years Boat Show I was kayaking over to the floating docks that are there right now at a fenced in parcel.

So during a subcommittee meeting of the DIA prior to the issuance of an RFI, RFP on Shipyards and during an opportunity to speak I asked if anyone wanted to pull up to the existing floating dock that is there right now for public or commercial purposes could they?  NO! NO! absolutely not.

So here we are today and I invite all of you to share what your interpretation of 2014-305 is especially the seizure of your watercraft for violating a docking rule.

There is so much more on this issue. But we are talking about Shipyards. And we all have given up asking you know who about you know what.

If you have access to the river than you are good. And the heck with anyone else especially Downtown on our St. Johns River an American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative in our new CRA/DIA in the USA zone.

[thelakelander]

Connectivity? How about our river and it's tributaries especially in this new CRA/DIA zone?

Not to many of us can walk on 40' deep water but the health of the river and us finding ways to better integrate ourselves with it is important.

[tufsu1]

A practice field can be used for other events as well not just practice. Some very short sighted views on here. Guess we should let it sit empty. After all, there's a long line of developers waiting right?

still waiting for someone to show one NFL practice facility that is used by others for non-football purposes?

and even if there is one, let's ask this question....is a private football practice field the "highest and best" use of riverfront property?  Many folks are skeptical about using riverfront property for a convention center, which clearly would be a more active and productive space than a practice facility.

[jaxjaguar]

A practice field can be used for other events as well not just practice. Some very short sighted views on here. Guess we should let it sit empty. After all, there's a long line of developers waiting right?

still waiting for someone to show one NFL practice facility that is used by others for non-football purposes?

As others have mentioned it could house the Armada, which would further solidify the "sports district." When high schools and colleges travel they need facilities to practice in. When I played football in high school we used the Dolphins practice fields (which were very nice, unlike their stadium), before the State Championship game. There are constantly youth sports / play 60 events going on which could use the field to attract more people to the downtown area (play 60 could host their summer camps here as well). If a football museum and some bars, etc were incorporated into the mix you could have a true "sports district" and an attraction / event location to have people in the area nearly 365 days a year (Sharks, Armada, Suns, Jags, Giants, Monster Jam, BMX / MotoX, Concerts, State Championship games?, NCAA basketball & NCAA football, LAX, Fulham, USMNT, etc). The more venues in the area, the more events you can host. The more events that are hosted in that area, the more likely investors will try to make a buck by putting in some more attractions to keep people around. The more people that hang around, the higher the likely hood that some will visit the Urban Core.

[thelakelander]

Sounds like they envision something similar to Patriot Place in Fox. Perhaps a waterfront version...







http://www.patriot-place.com/

[simms3]

I'm with Lake on this entirely.  Practice fields and sports complex?  This is Khan serving Khan.  The Shipyards aren't ready yet for becoming a major foot traffic driver or tourist attraction because there's too much shit surrounding it that will prevent the area from becoming a successful extension of downtown (and at this point, an extension of what?  there's nothing downtown to anchor any of this).

There's a reason Khan is proposing practice fields: nothing else can go on the site today and Khan isn't a real estate developer.

About that, let's get another thing straight - just because Khan has his own money and owns the Jaguars doesn't mean he knows how to develop real estate.  I actually take offense at the notion that people think he can.

Finally, what is everyone's obsession about creating a sports empire in Jax as if it's primed to do so?  Atlanta has a lock on college sports, but cities in the South and especially FL are pretty horrible professional sports towns.  Why put eggs in that basket?  Jax is a small market, has a lot of transplants and fans loyal to other teams, and I say if Miami/Tampa have a hard time supporting their teams, then what makes us think lil ol Jax can?

[jaxjaguar]

I'm with Lake on this entirely.  Practice fields and sports complex?  This is Khan serving Khan.  The Shipyards aren't ready yet for becoming a major foot traffic driver or tourist attraction because there's too much shit surrounding it that will prevent the area from becoming a successful extension of downtown (and at this point, an extension of what?  there's nothing downtown to anchor any of this).

There's a reason Khan is proposing practice fields: nothing else can go on the site today and Khan isn't a real estate developer.

About that, let's get another thing straight - just because Khan has his own money and owns the Jaguars doesn't mean he knows how to develop real estate.  I actually take offense at the notion that people think he can.

Finally, what is everyone's obsession about creating a sports empire in Jax as if it's primed to do so?  Atlanta has a lock on college sports, but cities in the South and especially FL are pretty horrible professional sports towns.  Why put eggs in that basket?  Jax is a small market, has a lot of transplants and fans loyal to other teams, and I say if Miami/Tampa have a hard time supporting their teams, then what makes us think lil ol Jax can?

It's small minded and short sighted thoughts like this that leave this city 2nd rate. You have to build for the future and do things different to be successful. All of you nay sayers have no valid ideas for development and critique every idea someone has into the ground. This forum has taken a drastic turn towards developing on the scale of RAP. WE CAN BE AN EXCITING AND DIVERSE CITY. Let the people with the money to make a difference try.... /rant

[thelakelander]

Money or no money, good idea or great idea......they all don't matter if we can't get it right at the pedestrian scale level. I understand people want Jax to be world class and great, but don't overlook the basic building blocks of establishing a successful walkable city. 

[Gamblor]

There's no sugar daddy coming to Jax's rescue.

Ya sorry, sugar daddy was a poor choice of word late at night. I should have said I had hopes he'd be another prime player on the scene, that would continue to fill voids like development at the trio/barnett. I'd love to see the next swing be something in San Marco or Brooklyn. Although when thinking about this last night and my poor choice of using sugar daddy, I became torn. Part of me thinks maybe Shad just wants to get the Shipyards because he sees them as an eyesore so close to the stadium. Another part of me thinks he is taking a home run, sugar daddy swing. And of course the option of he wants both. Both of these have parts that really disappoint me, let me deal with the eyesore theory first.

If it's an eye sore to Shad and changing it is for the betterment of the gameday experience, why not recognize the other problematic areas? How do they not see the neighbors are a jail and industrial plant? And if we are developing on an eyesore basis, how about all those parking lots used a few times a year...

As for home run swing, I will first say I know this was promoted as a way to get Jags fans excited. Its not Shad's next development deal. But... if this is a home run swing concept, it's a shite one. This plan comes down to a lot of teams trying to get there own Patriot Place. NFL teams looking for new revenue streams started looking overseas in the late 90s and saw soccer teams with massive land deals, generating tens to hundreds of millions of pounds/euros. When New England got Patriot Place it started to bring more prominence to this idea, and helped the Patriots sell themselves even more, now as saviors to a once dead area, but mainly of course gave the Krafts/Patriots even deeper pockets. Plenty of teams want to emulate this, but from what I've seen compared to some other similar team land deals, the concept here stinks big time. If we are conceptualizing and taking a home run swing, I have to question how bad this is as we know Stache has met with the Seaglass and aquarium. While they have their problems too, you think some of the concepts like making it/continuance of the area as a entertainment district. You think with the problems at Berkman II they'd have seen the opportunity, at least in imagineering, to extend the land closer to the Elbow and where things are actually happening. To give an example of what I would be pleased with in the crazy concept stage, plan for a convention center at the courthouse, tear down down berk II and use as part of that land for aquarium that would come into the shipyards property. Include a tower that is Jags tower. Move team offices there (which they don't want to do as they just spent I believe ten mill renovating the offices), bottom floor have a Jags bar/restaurant/small plaza that is center of activity for away games. Have a experience Jaguars museum, where fans can see great moments/games, memorabilia, ect. Promote something that is pedestrian friendly, using the riverwalk to really get a nice string going from the core section on down to the stadium using the shipyards. I think that in reality is what they want, but they did a bad job of realizing it. Well, I'll stop for a bit, I'm probably just thinking wacky...

[simms3]

Speaking of sport organizations developing land, the Giants lease several piers from the Port of SF here.  Obviously they already built their stadium waterfront, but across a canal from the stadium is more land.  They have partnered with Strada Investment Group to develop the land for them, since obviously a sports organization isn't in the business of real estate development.

Their plans include high rise residential and office, a park, and rehabilitation of the piers into creative/active uses.

Anchor Steam Brewing is already signed up to relocate to Pier 48:



http://beerpulse.com/2013/02/anchor-brewing-co-formally-announces-new-brewery-revises-capacity-projection/

And further conceptual renderings are below:


http://www.livesoma.com/2012/06/12/mission-rock-proposal-june/


http://sf.curbed.com/places/mission-rock


http://www.hargreaves.com/projects/Waterfronts/MissionSeaWall/

The site as it stands today:




Awesome fly over video that MetroJacksonville's website won't seem to let me embed:
[vimeo]51960690[/vimeo]
http://vimeo.com/51960690

[Gamblor]

Speaking of sport organizations developing land, the Giants lease several piers from the Port of SF here.  Obviously they already built their stadium waterfront, but across a canal from the stadium is more land.  They have partnered with Strada Investment Group to develop the land for them, since obviously a sports organization isn't in the business of real estate development.

Their plans include high rise residential and office, a park, and rehabilitation of the piers into creative/active uses.

Anchor Steam Brewing is already signed up to relocate to Pier 48:



http://beerpulse.com/2013/02/anchor-brewing-co-formally-announces-new-brewery-revises-capacity-projection/

And further conceptual renderings are below:


http://www.livesoma.com/2012/06/12/mission-rock-proposal-june/


http://sf.curbed.com/places/mission-rock


http://www.hargreaves.com/projects/Waterfronts/MissionSeaWall/

The site as it stands today:




Awesome fly over video that MetroJacksonville's website won't seem to let me embed:
[vimeo]51960690[/vimeo]
http://vimeo.com/51960690

When I was referring to other teams land deals in my post, this is definitely one I was thinking of. I love that i don't even have to post it, the masterful Simms does it for me 

[MEGATRON]

Regardless of the intended use, the Shipyards will be difficult to develop due existing contamination and the impacts that the contamination will have on collection and treatment of stormwater.  By difficult I mean expensive.

[finehoe]

http://www.capitolriverfront.org/



http://theyardsdc.com/gallery/

[thelakelander]

Jax is currently being bashed by Colin Cowherd. He's talking about his super bowl experience. No downtown, no cabs, horrible  mulitmodal transportation network, limited dining, etc....yada, yada, yada....

[I-10east]

It's small minded and short sighted thoughts like this that leave this city 2nd rate. You have to build for the future and do things different to be successful. All of you nay sayers have no valid ideas for development and critique every idea someone has into the ground. This forum has taken a drastic turn towards developing on the scale of RAP. WE CAN BE AN EXCITING AND DIVERSE CITY. Let the people with the money to make a difference try.... /rant

I totally agree. Despite Jax being a transient-city mainly because of the Navy, I still think that we have our own thing here in FL, in contrast to the other wishy-washy markets (MIA TB) that are many times bigger than Jax. It's inexplicable for Jax to outsold Miami and Tampa in ticket sales before, but it happened. Like many said so far, I'm actually not wowed about practice fields on riverfront property, but I'm also sick of the Shipyards being vacant too. Khan's proposal sure as hell beats pie in the sky Landmar deals.