2012 City Population Estimates Released

[thelakelander]

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/files/2010/10/millennials-confident-connected-open-to-change.pdf

here is a somewhat limited guide to millenial demographics.

I say limited because it only accounts for about 10 years, which is not truly a 'generation'.

Millenials in general were born from 1980 to about 2000.  some people would say 1984 until 911. 

The youngest Millenial would be 12 years old now, and the oldest would be 33.  The pew numbers reflect the older half of that generation---which is what we are also all talking about now.

So what does the linked article below, focusing on young professionals, have to do with whether Miami is attracting and retaining millennials?

For Forbes list of the top cities for Millenials check here.  (hint:  none of them are in Florida)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/04/24/the-10-happiest-cities-for-young-professionals/2/

[thelakelander]

For Forbes list of the top cities for Millenials check here.  (hint:  none of them are in Florida)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/04/24/the-10-happiest-cities-for-young-professionals/2/

This highlights some places Forbes believes young professionals are more attracted to. However, it does not suggest that every place not shown on the list is failing to attract and retain millennials.

Btw, millennials aren't necessarily "young professionals". In general, millennials (also known as Generation Y, Echo Boomers, etc.) are the generation of people born between the early 1980s and 2000′s.

true but considering that Miami is in the top five  largest metropolitan areas, you would expect that they would make the top ten if it were actually a magnet to the largest generation of living americans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cities_and_metropolitan_areas_of_the_United_States

No, not really.  my point was that South Florida appears to be attracting and retaining millennials. Nothing more, nothing less.  Are you saying this is not true?  If so, you may want to call the US Census Bureau and tell them their numbers are off.

[thelakelander]

Hmm.  I didnt actually have to call the Census Bureau as they publish reports.  I googled them instead.

So what's the population loss of the millennial generation in the City of Miami over the last decade?  From what I can tell from Miami's census data is that there is no population loss.  Thus, logic would suggest that population growth within this generation indicates the city is attracting and retaining this population. All the stuff about San Francisco and other cities is pure babble and not even worthy of spending time to debate. Either this place is seeing growth or decline. There is no middle ground when simply evaluating the absolute numbers.

[thelakelander]

I think both Stephen and Simms are both falling afoul of their own terminology. Not all Millennials are "young professionals", and vice versa.

Obviously thats true, but are very poor, working class, or very wealthy millenials really the groups most likely to relocate to a different city based on their aesthetics and professional prospects?

It really depends.  There are other factors at play like quality-of-life, proximity to family, cultural comfort, etc. Nevertheless, all of this is irrelevant to the discussion of whether Miami is holding its own in attracting and retaining millennials.  If it's in decline, census numbers would reflect this.  They don't.

[thelakelander]

Hmm.  I didnt actually have to call the Census Bureau as they publish reports.  I googled them instead.

So what's the population loss of the millennial generation in the City of Miami over the last decade?  From what I can tell from Miami's census data is that there is no population loss.  Thus, logic would suggest that population growth within this generation indicates the city is attracting and retaining this population. All the stuff about San Francisco and other cities is pure babble and not even worthy of spending time to debate. Either this place is seeing growth or decline. There is no middle ground when simply evaluating the absolute numbers.

so in other words, you don't know?

I think we clearly know, you don't know .  I'm just sticking with the growth numbers indicated by the census. Nothing more, nothing less.

[thelakelander]

I think both Stephen and Simms are both falling afoul of their own terminology. Not all Millennials are "young professionals", and vice versa.

Obviously thats true, but are very poor, working class, or very wealthy millenials really the groups most likely to relocate to a different city based on their aesthetics and professional prospects?

It really depends.  There are other factors at play like quality-of-life, proximity to family, cultural comfort, etc. Nevertheless, all of this is irrelevant to the discussion of whether Miami is holding its own in attracting and retaining millennials.  If it's in decline, census numbers would reflect this.  They don't.

well to be technical the jury is still out on that.  Miami seems to think that they aren't, but what do they know?

Seeking to improve is not an indicator of decline.  Quite frankly, every major city is seeking or desires to improve, including Jacksonville.  Some just happen to be more successful than others.

[thelakelander]

So is the census!

[thelakelander]

Stop being like COJ  does with downtown revitalization by making this more complicated than it has to be.

You do know that the City of Miami and Miami-Dade County are two different things....right? What's Miami's?

[thelakelander]

so what is it?

[I-10east]

Bottomline, Jax is still lightyears behind every other metro's population growth. We will never catch up because *insert negative rhetoric*....and the leadership is seemingly *more pessimistic propaganda*....So we need to get our heads out of our arses. Hopefully that's a good dose of anti-complacency for the day, whatever that means...

[thelakelander]

Let me simplify this.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the City of Miami added 17,165 people between the ages of 20-34 between 2000 to 2010.

Census: Population - % of total city population - Age

2000: 77,287 - 21.4% - 20 to 34 years
2010: 94,452 - 23.7% - 20 to 34 years

http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=DEC_00_SF1_DP1&prodType=table
http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_11_5YR_DP05

Census estimates suggest Miami added 14,435 residents between 2010 and 2010.  If percentages have remained the same, that means the 20-34 age group has added 3,640 people in two years.  Considering the entire city is only 35 square miles (roughly the same size as Jacksonville's urban core), I'd say that's holding its own.

[thelakelander]

Based on the change in actual numbers for this age group that's provided by the US Census Bureau, my point has always been that Miami is holding its own when it comes to attracting and retaining the millennial generation. 

If Simms argument suggests otherwise, then it's inaccurate according to the numbers for this age group in Miami, as defined by the US Census.  If we're selectively deciding who is a millennial and who isn't, which is the only way one can suggest that Latin Americans scare away millennials, everything is opinionated based upon each individual's own perspective.

As for accuracy, I'll accept the census data as factual over opinions posted in an online discussion board.

[tufsu1]

2000: 77,287 - 21.4% - 20 to 34 years
2010: 94,452 - 23.7% - 20 to 34 years

I believe the appropriate word here would be....BOOM!

[thelakelander]

Don't forget to post the original comment that lead to this discussion:

Miami does just fine in attracting/keeping millenials

This comment is proven by the following:

1. Definition of Millennial

Main Entry:      millennial generation
Part of Speech:      n
Definition:      a term used to refer to the generation, born from 1980 onward, brought up using digital technology and mass media; the children of Baby Boomers; also called Generation Y
Etymology:      1991
Usage:      also millennial (adj., n.)

source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/millennial+generation

2. 2010 census numbers of Millennial age group residing in Miami, compared with same age group from 2010 census

Let me simplify this.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the City of Miami added 17,165 people between the ages of 20-34 between 2000 to 2010.

Census: Population - % of total city population - Age

2000: 77,287 - 21.4% - 20 to 34 years
2010: 94,452 - 23.7% - 20 to 34 years

http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=DEC_00_SF1_DP1&prodType=table
http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_11_5YR_DP05

Census estimates suggest Miami added 14,435 residents between 2010 and 2010.  If percentages have remained the same, that means the 20-34 age group has added 3,640 people in two years.  Considering the entire city is only 35 square miles (roughly the same size as Jacksonville's urban core), I'd say that's holding its own.

So what's the disagreement with tufsu1's statement above? Numbers show decent growth within this age group in Miami over the last decade.

If growth isn't considered to be an indicator of doing fine (btw, which does not mean there isn't room for improvement) in keeping/attracting millennials, what is?

Nobody ever mentioned or cares outside of you and Simms if it's top 10 or whatever.

[simms3]

Jacksonville is also young - but would you call it a Millennial market?  LoL  Let's get serious here.  Denver is a Millennial market.  Not only is it young, it attracts a wide range of Millennials from all over and provides high paying jobs for them, as well as the quality of life they desire.  JOBS is the key.  JOBS for everyone.  Young/growing industries, too.

Miami is young for other reasons.  It doesn't have the robust job market, and it doesn't offer the lifestyle that many millennials stereotypically seek.  It's antithetical to what most young people want.

dude....have you been to Miami lately?  Not that I want to lump all young people together, but I think they are often looking for a lively music & cultural scene, a multitude of dining options, lots of recreational opportunities, and often hip cool urban housing....all of which Miami (and Miami Beach) have in abundance!

as for Jacksonville and millenials....the same data source that said 18-34 year olds make up 24% of Miami-Dade population says Duval is also at 24%....a key difference here vs. Miami would be the # of folks in the Navy...btw, do they count as millenials to you?

This goes along with mincing of words/definitions/labels, I suppose.  I brought up the fact that Jax was a "young" city, too, and then my words were "but is it a "Millennial" city?".  So I guess I'm being exclusionary here and I'll confess to that.

To answer your question, yes I've been to Miami lately (although not in 2013, but several times over 2012).  I worked on a deal there for 12 months and have other more intimate connections to the city outside of work.

I think Miami has A LOT to offer visitors and wealthy people, and because of the inherent predominant language/culture and its location, it serves as the #1 gateway for Latin Americans and overall is one of the largest gateways in America.

I don't think it has as much to offer young residents of the city because it's so expensive and nothing seems catered to the middle/lower/upper middle class residents.  What is available to them invites a competitive situation whereby average people must compete for limited resources, per se, with all these rich folk who occupy half the metro.  It's a very "exclusive" city and feels that way, and develops that way.  Sure there's a great food scene, but even in off the beaten path areas you pay a surcharge because of tourists and because of COL.  I had this complaint about Atlanta before I left - with the explosion of the central core, all these foodie farm to table restaurants opened, and all began to taste basically the same and they were all expensive, but the options for good cheap food or ethnic food were few and far between the higher income the area.

Sure there are lots of interesting living options, but they are all in expensive for sale areas.  Rentals are relatively sparse in the areas east of 95 and are very expensive ($3-4+psf).  The quality/quantity/payscale of the jobs offered in Miami does not reflect the superficially apparent quality of life, nor does it reflect in any way whatsoever the cost of living.  I don't even think pay in Miami is marginally greater than in Jax, yet the COL is certainly at least 50% higher.

As an easy example - pay in Atlanta is considerably more, the quantity of jobs offered in stable traditional industries is much greater, even in downturns, and the quality of the jobs offered is also higher, arguably, yet at the same time the cost of living is SUBSTANTIALLY less.  There's no arguing with that equation.  That's the equation that makes a city attractive to millennials, in addition to the little things that the city has to offer.


Lake - is there any way you can look into domestic migration?  I have a feeling that given Miami's ever increasing role as an international gateway, that much of the net growth in the 18-34 year old age range has to do with immigration.