Why Does Jax Continue to Deal with Turner Construction?

[Tacachale]

^Mousa was brought in to try to rope in a mad elephant that had already been on a rampage for five years. He managed it as well or better as anyone could at that stage. And I highly doubt he was paid six figures a year as a consultant. Another issue the city has is removing maintenance budgets, which were included in all these projects when they were planned but were removed to "save money" later. We can see how smart that is.

[Cheshire Cat]

^Mousa was brought in to try to rope in a mad elephant that had already been on a rampage for five years. He managed it as well or better as anyone could at that stage. And I highly doubt he was paid six figures a year as a consultant. Another issue the city has is removing maintenance budgets, which were included in all these projects when they were planned but were removed to "save money" later. We can see how smart that is.

I know and like Sam, he is generally very good at what he does and he knew he was stepping onto a runaway train when he stepped into this deal.  Stopping those trains is generally what he does best.  Not sure why so many things went unnoticed on this job however.  Tach, check the figures if you like.  Sam was paid very well and in the end it was more than six figures. 

I wonder if you noticed that you just made excuses for a well known player in politics and city hall.  Kind of gives a bit more steam to the argument that if you are an "insider" you have way more latitude to perform or not cause your buddies will back you up regardless.  lol  Sam is overall a sharp guy, which is why the Turner interaction is a bit off in my eyes.

[carpnter]

One thing to keep in mind is that in many cases an argument can be made that problems with a building can be directly related to poor design.  Sometimes these design problems might show up when it is too late to change them and then you end up trying to fix them as best you can. 
IIRC the problem with the Courthouse was not the sprinkler system but the Smoke Evac system and alarm system.  If a sprinkler system holds the proper pressure it is working, water will flow when the proper temp is reached at the sprinkler head.   I've never been directly involved in a project that had a smoke evac system but I have spoken to other contractors and owners who have and I am not surprised that they had problems with that system in the building. 

That being said, Turner not knowing the building would be finished on time is inexcusable.  They had complicated systems in the building and they had not been tested, assuming that you would pass the first time with no hiccups is not realistic, they should have made the city aware that they would be cutting the deadline too close and they should delay the move. 

[Cheshire Cat]

One thing to keep in mind is that in many cases an argument can be made that problems with a building can be directly related to poor design.  Sometimes these design problems might show up when it is too late to change them and then you end up trying to fix them as best you can. 
IIRC the problem with the Courthouse was not the sprinkler system but the Smoke Evac system and alarm system.  If a sprinkler system holds the proper pressure it is working, water will flow when the proper temp is reached at the sprinkler head.   I've never been directly involved in a project that had a smoke evac system but I have spoken to other contractors and owners who have and I am not surprised that they had problems with that system in the building. 

That being said, Turner not knowing the building would be finished on time is inexcusable.  They had complicated systems in the building and they had not been tested, assuming that you would pass the first time with no hiccups is not realistic, they should have made the city aware that they would be cutting the deadline too close and they should delay the move. 

I would agree!

[Tacachale]

^Mousa was brought in to try to rope in a mad elephant that had already been on a rampage for five years. He managed it as well or better as anyone could at that stage. And I highly doubt he was paid six figures a year as a consultant. Another issue the city has is removing maintenance budgets, which were included in all these projects when they were planned but were removed to "save money" later. We can see how smart that is.

I know and like Sam, he is generally very good at what he does and he knew he was stepping onto a runaway train when he stepped into this deal.  Stopping those trains is generally what he does best.  Not sure why so many things went unnoticed on this job however.  Tach, check the figures if you like.  Sam was paid very well and in the end it was more than six figures. 

I wonder if you noticed that you just made excuses for a well known player in politics and city hall.  Kind of gives a bit more steam to the argument that if you are an "insider" you have way more latitude to perform or not cause your buddies will back you up regardless.  lol  Sam is overall a sharp guy, which is why the Turner interaction is a bit off in my eyes.

At the same time, we see that people will also take you to task for problems you didn't create and money you weren't paid, so perhaps it evens out I'm just pointing out that the courthouse monstrosity was hardly Mousa's fault and I really doubt he got a "cool six figures a year for his involvement".

[Cheshire Cat]

^ I didn't say that it was Mousa's fault but what I am questioning is why after he was on board the train remained out of control.  He was paid to look after the interests of the taxpayer on this job?  I guess whether or not he did that is up to interpretation.  I won't continue to argue the salary, but I know it was six figures.  Feel free to verify that with City records if you like or have the contract pulled.  That will show you what was agreed to when it came to payment.  Even if it was a buck two eighty, he was responsible for some oversight here.

[Cheshire Cat]

Here, I will make it easy for you.  It was $154K over the period he worked on the project.

“Current city project management staff and others now have this project well under control,” he said in the letter to Chief Administrative Officer Kevin Hyde in which he terminated his contract with the city.

Mousa was paid $154,000 over the four years he worked on the courthouse project.

The consultant had been part of the John Delaney and John Peyton administrations and was brought on in 2008 after the project cost ballooned to more than $400 million. That’s more than double what voters had approved when they passed the Better Jacksonville Plan in 2000

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-02-09/story/sam-mousa-resigns-duval-courthouse-project#ixzz2SdwC3D32

[Tacachale]

Here, I will make it easy for you.  It was $154K.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-02-09/story/sam-mousa-resigns-duval-courthouse-project

Unless I'm reading it wrong, that's over the entire four years he was on the project.

[Cheshire Cat]

Whatever that broke down to be by year or over the period of his employment Sam was put in place to provide some oversight. Whether or not the 154k was well spent is hard to say as well as his statement to the effect that the courthouse project was well under control.  I just wonder what kind of control he meant.  lol  My point in mentioning Mousa in the courthouse equation really is meant in tandem with commentary about folks working for the city and what level of performance is considered good enough when tax dollars are being spent. That's what is underneath it all for me here, the reality that the oversight taxpayers deserve isn't always taking place in Jacksonville.