Possible buyer for Hayden Burns Library Downtown

[Bativac]

I'd love somebody to do something with this building, but how many times now has its occupation or purchase been eminent?

Hope this time it actually happens, but I'll believe it when I'm standing in their lobby.

[thelakelander]

Interesting shots Ennis.  What is there looks good but is certainly quite different than what they could do here.  Looking at what you found here speaks well for a social service complex and perhaps affordable housing outside of the core.

I thought they were proposing to turn the Haydon Burns into an office complex for philanthropic and nonprofit organizations?  That's pretty much what the two examples in Dallas and Wilmington are, except the Dallas example appears to be just outside of downtown in an area like LaVilla.  The Wilmington example is a highrise similar to the Ed Ball Building.  The Haydon Burns structure would fall in the middle of these two examples. Nevertheless, both appear to be positives instead of negatives on the urban context surrounding them.  If the Jax proposal is basing their model off these two examples, it's a plus for downtown Jacksonville.

[Cheshire Cat]

Interesting shots Ennis.  What is there looks good but is certainly quite different than what they could do here.  Looking at what you found here speaks well for a social service complex and perhaps affordable housing outside of the core.

I thought they were proposing to turn the Haydon Burns into an office complex for philanthropic and nonprofit organizations?  That's pretty much what the two examples in Dallas and Wilmington are, except the Dallas example appears to be just outside of downtown in an area like LaVilla.  The Wilmington example is a highrise similar to the Ed Ball Building.  The Haydon Burns structure would fall in the middle of these two examples. Nevertheless, both appear to be positives instead of negatives on the urban context surrounding them.  If the Jax proposal is basing their model off these two examples, it's a plus for downtown Jacksonville.

True Ennis, that is what was stated. I guess the difference would be whether or not the offices are geared to serve the organization's staff or serve the community members.  Perhaps even both.  I am guessing that may be part of what they will determine as they move forward.  As Bativac pointed out this deal is not yet done, but of all that has been suggested so far for the structure, this organization seems to have the funding to go forward with their plans.

[Cheshire Cat]

I was thinking restaurant too Stephen.  Perhaps they would consider that.  How about a new take on Boomtown?  I would love to be able to taste the peanut chicken again. 

[dougskiles]

... and Skiles (oddly enough---doug do you have prominent texan family branches?)

No branches in Texas.  We are of the West Virginia variety - with unfortunately not many branches - if ya know what I mean!

[Cheshire Cat]

I was thinking restaurant too Stephen.  Perhaps they would consider that.  How about a new take on Boomtown?  I would love to be able to taste the peanut chicken again.

lol.  Its much easier to simply make it for you than to open an entire restaurant for that purpose, you know.

I had rather thought that the people from Casa Dora were wanting to move into the renovated space.

What were those tiny little pasta goodies you made as well? I don't remember what you called those. Those were awesome.  Isn't Casa Dora Jerry's place or am I mistaken? 

[tpot]

Jacksonville's common response......."I guess something is better than nothing" is why Jacksonville is where it is today....if this goes through.....this will be yet another dead space after 5pm.........

[Cheshire Cat]

Jacksonville's common response......."I guess something is better than nothing" is why Jacksonville is where it is today....if this goes through.....this will be yet another dead space after 5pm.........

That's not been everyone's response tpot, hence this discussion. 

[Cheshire Cat]

Right, now I remember. Thank you.  Why not another night life restaurant type of venue in that spot?  I don't remember how big the basement area was but that could be a great use for it.  I know "Hamburger Mary's"!   

[thelakelander]

meh.  Nice is nice, I suppose.

But I would like to see more energy.

Obviously its empty now, so anything is better than whats happening now.

And people there during the day means more customers for downtown.  But given the unique character of the architecture and its position straddling the Laura Street Area and the Bay Street Area, I just think that anything that doesnt enhance whats happening at night is a missed opportunity.

But perhaps the women at the Foundation are open to the basement level  street restaurant still, so Im not criticizing.

Everything is pure speculation at this point.  For all we know, there could be a ground level retail component like the Wilmington example.  There's no reason the Wilmington's ground level bank branch couldn't be a dining entity if such an entity desired to lease a space.

When I mention the city getting out of the way, it primarily focuses around situations like this.  It's one thing to decide the uses of publicly held property but completely another when dealing with the market driven private sector (i.e. Avondale Mellow Mushroom situation).  While everyone would have loved to see something like Latitude 30 (which would have also had offices in most of the building) go in there, they decided not to.   While everyone loved the mixed-use Main Branch proposal from a few years back, it clearly wasn't feasible for that development group to pursue that plan.

If Dupont believes this space is viable as an office building, is willing to purchase it, and their use is not in conflict with current public policy and future goals, they should be allowed to. Cities infill and evolve organically.  We should steer clear of trying to force certain uses on other's projects (i.e. Shipyards). That rarely turns out well. As long as the intended product doesn't harm the mission of creating a vibrant pedestrian scale downtown core, everything should be good and allowed, imo. With that said, I believe there is existing policy in place that requires a certain % of ground level frontage to be retail (Whether DDRB follows it, is another story).  So if a dining/nightlife option is viable, that particular entity will have an opportunity to sign a lease for the desired amount of space.

[Cheshire Cat]

meh.  Nice is nice, I suppose.

But I would like to see more energy.

Obviously its empty now, so anything is better than whats happening now.

And people there during the day means more customers for downtown.  But given the unique character of the architecture and its position straddling the Laura Street Area and the Bay Street Area, I just think that anything that doesnt enhance whats happening at night is a missed opportunity.

But perhaps the women at the Foundation are open to the basement level  street restaurant still, so Im not criticizing.

Everything is pure speculation at this point.  For all we know, there could be a ground level retail component like the Wilmington example.  There's no reason the Wilmington's ground level bank branch couldn't be a dining entity if such an entity desired to lease a space.

When I mention the city getting out of the way, it primarily focuses around situations like this.  It's one thing to decide the uses of publicly held property but completely another when dealing with the market driven private sector (i.e. Avondale Mellow Mushroom situation).  While everyone would have loved to see something like Latitude 30 (which would have also had offices in most of the building) go in there, they decided not to.   While everyone loved the mixed-use Main Branch proposal from a few years back, it clearly wasn't feasible for that development group to pursue that plan.

If Dupont believes this space is viable as an office building, is willing to purchase it, and their use is not in conflict with current public policy and future goals, they should be allowed to. Cities infill and evolve organically.  We should steer clear of trying to force certain uses on other's projects (i.e. Shipyards). That rarely turns out well. As long as the intended product doesn't harm the mission of creating a vibrant pedestrian scale downtown core, everything should be good and allowed, imo. With that said, I believe there is existing policy in place that requires a certain % of ground level frontage to be retail (Whether DDRB follows it, is another story).  So if a dining/nightlife option is viable, that particular entity will have an opportunity to sign a lease for the desired amount of space.

All true Ennis. We will have to wait and see I suppose or do some inquiry ourselves. 

[Bill Hoff]

There's a similar concept in Springfield - the Wells Fargo Historic Springfield Community Learning Center (very long name).

I believe MJ did a feature on it.

Wells Fargo spent a bunch of money to renovate it's building at 6th & Main, including very nice non-profit space. Various non-profits work from there, all professional office type of work. Community groups are welcome to use it for meetings or functions too. The Jax Urban League coordinates the space.

I assume HB Library would be similar, I also assume it would take advantage of it's location....non-profits host many functions & activities.

[fieldafm]

When I mention the city getting out of the way, it primarily focuses around situations like this.  It's one thing to decide the uses of publicly held property but completely another when dealing with the market driven private sector (i.e. Avondale Mellow Mushroom situation).  While everyone would have loved to see something like Latitude 30 (which would have also had offices in most of the building) go in there, they decided not to.   While everyone loved the mixed-use Main Branch proposal from a few years back, it clearly wasn't feasible for that development group to pursue that plan.

If Dupont believes this space is viable as an office building, is willing to purchase it, and their use is not in conflict with current public policy and future goals, they should be allowed to. Cities infill and evolve organically.  We should steer clear of trying to force certain uses on other's projects (i.e. Shipyards). That rarely turns out well. As long as the intended product doesn't harm the mission of creating a vibrant pedestrian scale downtown core, everything should be good and allowed, imo

100% agree. 

[urbanlibertarian]

Let's not allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good.  If this happens it will be good thing.  The courthouse move has hurt lunchtime dining and happy hour bar business in the area.  This would restore some of that.

[Ocklawaha]

Well I just got the scoop, the new tenant will be..... Hanjin!