Khan: Downtown's Laura Street Trio redevelopment deal 'alive but on life support

[MusicMan]

One question:  Downtown Jacksonville boast less than 2000 residents, and 95% of the people who work there
drive home at 5 pm. Who exactly is going to fill a high end restaurant inside the Marble Bank? 

I would buy into the idea if the owner was a celebrity chef such as Mario Batali aor Bobby Flay, but not another chain place. Fuggedaboutit.

[duvaldude08]

One question:  Downtown Jacksonville boast less than 2000 residents, and 95% of the people who work there
drive home at 5 pm. Who exactly is going to fill a high end restaurant inside the Marble Bank? 

I would buy into the idea if the owner was a celebrity chef such as Mario Batali aor Bobby Flay, but not another chain place. Fuggedaboutit.

That may be true, but I believe that is the number of residents just on the northbank, which is considered the "core". If you add in residents from the southbank, san marco, springfield, and riverside they will all patronize downtown, not just downtown residents.

[JeffreyS]

People in Jax Drive to where they want to eat the Orange Park crowd will drive to the Beach, SJTC or Ruth's Chris for high end dining and they will drive to downtown as well.  Where as a chain that can be found all over town will only be supported by local traffic a high end place will have a larger draw. Now of course high end places flop as well but the higher end or "occasion" dinning the less it has to rely on a certain neighborhood.

[Shwaz]

One question:  Downtown Jacksonville boast less than 2000 residents, and 95% of the people who work there
drive home at 5 pm. Who exactly is going to fill a high end restaurant inside the Marble Bank? 

I would buy into the idea if the owner was a celebrity chef such as Mario Batali aor Bobby Flay, but not another chain place. Fuggedaboutit.

My guess... the same people that eat at Ruth's Chris, Bistro AIX, Mathews, Black Sheep etc. There are over 1,000 companies in DT that wine & dine and are wined dined.

[tufsu1]

One question:  Downtown Jacksonville boast less than 2000 residents, and 95% of the people who work there
drive home at 5 pm. Who exactly is going to fill a high end restaurant inside the Marble Bank? 

please...how many people live at the SJTC right now?

fact is there are also 50,000+ people that live within a few miles of downtown....I'm sure folks in Avondale and San Marco would frequent a downtown establishment, just as I (a downtown resident) frequent their neighborhoods

[thelakelander]

One question:  Downtown Jacksonville boast less than 2000 residents, and 95% of the people who work there
drive home at 5 pm. Who exactly is going to fill a high end restaurant inside the Marble Bank? 

I would buy into the idea if the owner was a celebrity chef such as Mario Batali aor Bobby Flay, but not another chain place. Fuggedaboutit.

2,000 residents will struggle to keep a 7-Eleven open, much less a restaurant, pharmacy or grocery market.  The concept of a restaurant should work well if it comes along with a boutique hotel.  Ruth Chris and Charthouse manage to keep their doors open.  I'm pretty sure a good number of their patrons are guest at the adjoining hotels.

[MusicMan]

Can someone name 5 restaurants downtown that are thriving that do not serve burritos or hamburgers/pizza/wings?   Hooters does not count!

(By 'thriving' I mean struggling to keep up with demand for their food/product.)

Last time I checked Chew moved a couple miles to get near some actual people.

Shwaz, your restaurant group is in San Marco.

Also I did not say open a grocery store in the Marble Bank, I said open a new concept hybrid store that would be unlike anything else in Jax or all of NE Florida ( Zabars meets Fresh Market.) Something to generate buzz that could resonate outside of Duval County. Something to serve all the folks who might venture downtown for any reason, such as a football game or a concert. A high end restaurant ( and I love to go to such places) will serve a very limited clientele, and if the hotel is empty on the weekends, chances are it will be too.

If you look at this transaction, you can see that the $3 million went to the Barnett Bank purchase and everything else was included "for free." They are starting with a ridiculously low basis here which allows for a bit more freedom and risk taking than had they paid more. Also, the COJ will probably kick in a bit of $$ to cover new plumbing and electric, or at least a good portion of it.

[thelakelander]

Here are five: 1. Ruth Chris, 2. Charthouse, 3. Benny's Seafood, 4. River City Brewing and 5. Juliette's.

[MusicMan]

Come on man, any one of those in 32202?

[thelakelander]

You're excluding the Southbank riverfront?  In that case, two out of that list are in 32202.

[ben says]

Here are five: 1. Ruth Chris, 2. Charthouse, 3. Benny's Seafood, 4. River City Brewing and 5. Juliette's.

Side note (NOT trying to hijack the thread!): RCBC should be ashamed to call itself a brewery. Hell, it should be ashamed to call itself a restaurant. Absent the good real estate, that place shoulda been out of business 10+ years ago!

[Tacachale]

No one's arguing that there's enough residential population downtown. The argument is that the Trio isn't going to work for residential, the layout just doesn't fit. Frankly, the Barnett would be a lot better for residential than they would.

[thelakelander]

Also I did not say open a grocery store in the Marble Bank, I said open a new concept hybrid store that would be unlike anything else in Jax or all of NE Florida ( Zabars meets Fresh Market.) Something to generate buzz that could resonate outside of Duval County. Something to serve all the folks who might venture downtown for any reason, such as a football game or a concert. A high end restaurant ( and I love to go to such places) will serve a very limited clientele, and if the hotel is empty on the weekends, chances are it will be too.

Fresh Market is rumored to be going into the Brooklyn retail project.  Nevertheless, no one is venturing from the burbs or out of Duval County to go to a downtown Fresh Market.  I'll say the same thing here, I mentioned in the thread about the Haydon Burns Library being purchased for non-profit uses. We should be careful about attempting to dictate specific uses in privately funded projects.  Those guys should put whatever in there that makes it feasible for this development to get off the ground.  As long as it engages the street, pays property taxes and fits within the overall vision of a vibrant downtown, there should not be a problem.  One the major reasons we've failed with downtown redevelopment in the past is because we've micro managed the private sector's innovation and creativity to the point to where most take their money and investment elsewhere.

If you look at this transaction, you can see that the $3 million went to the Barnett Bank purchase and everything else was included "for free." They are starting with a ridiculously low basis here which allows for a bit more freedom and risk taking than had they paid more. Also, the COJ will probably kick in a bit of $$ to cover new plumbing and electric, or at least a good portion of it.

There's a ton of money that needs to go into something like this:









This isn't an easy or cheap deal to pull off and make work.

[MusicMan]

I'm just giving you a hard time. Whatever goes into the Marble Bank, it  has stunning original arhitecture plus a location that in any other city would men a huge success. This blog is about the only place a guy like me can espouse his beliefs about what I think will work, based on what I have seen and experienced in my travels elsewhere.

Developer puts a restaurant there, I will go. But I probably won't drive past my 2 or 3 favorites to get there, unless the food and experince is spectacular. A cool and unique space reminiscent of 'Zabar's meet's Fresh Market' I could see going to on a weekly basis.

[edjax]

Let's add LaCena and Indochine to the list.