Bass Pro Shops opening in St. Johns County

[southsider1015]

Great, now I'm stupid.  Sure there's been some investment in Brooklyn, but I wouldn't consider the level of investment and the tax bases created that significant by any means.  It's sad that over the course of 200 years, COJ is what it is.  It's been heavily covered here on MJ, I'm not writing anything new.

[southsider1015]

^ all thanks to the awesome genius of Duval County lobbying for the construction of SR 9B

anyone see parallels with the First Coast Expressway?  how about it southsider1015?

Not quite sure what you're trying to prove here.  Maybe if Duval County got serious about growth and development, we'd see it happen.  Meanwhile, St. Johns is staying competitive as THE county for top schools, low crime, affordable housing, and soon, great shopping, and later, high paying jobs.

Meanwhile, COJ is struggling financially with the pension issue and can't pinch two pennies together to maintain sidewalks.  Sad, really.  About the only financial success stories these days is the SJTC, and now with the investment in I-295 Express Lanes, that area should continue to grow.

You're giving St. Johns County way too much credit. The county had far less to do with this project than state entities (FDOT building 9B), regional entities (JAXUSA), and property owners (who encouraged the state to spend millions on roads through their area, and are now positioned to build whatever this ends up being).

So far, all St. Johns County has been good at is residential development for commuters who work in Jacksonville, and services allied to that. It does have good schools. It has the same low crime as any demographically similar (affluent, suburban, largely white) area of the metro area or state. It certainly doesn't have affordable housing. Perhaps this will add "great shopping", but currently the county probably has less than other comparable bedroom suburbs; the county's bigger than Clay County but the only substantial retail centers are down in St. Augustine. And nothing I've seen suggests the county knows how to attract high-paying jobs, except possibly making plays to siphon off companies who are already in the metro area and want out of their leases. That's not really job growth so much as robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I give St John's all the credit.  What they've been able to achieve in 20 years is pretty significant.  Untouched dirt to having one of the most successful neighborhoods in the country.  They have been competitive as compared with Flagler, Duval, and Clay with everything they're offering.  They've indirectly forced FDOT to provide transportation connectivity to their community, and they've built up their county roads to continue the network.  They've managed and directed their growth relatively well, regardless of what's said here on MJ about urban sprawl. 

Affordable housing for the level of value provided.  Nocatee and Durbin might sound expensive, but the value is pretty significant. 

As I mentioned, the first step was bringing residents down to St. Johns for their residential tax base. Then develop the transportation infrastructure to allow people and goods to move around the area. Next comes the retail to develop the commercial tax base, and later, high paying commercial will come too, and if it comes from Duval, so be it.  Siphoning is happening all around the state, the high paying jobs go to the successful and competitive counties that offer the best business environment.  One could probably demonstrate that the first businesses to move to a county are typically right next door.  As more businesses flock from Duval, the bigger fish will come.

So to summarize:
Nocatee, Jullington Creek, Durbin Creek, Bartram Park?  Check.
Affluent, educated work force?  Check.
SR 9B, I-95, CR 2209, CR 210, Nocatee Parkway?  Check. Durbin Park, outlets, and future high end retail? Check.
Bonus: St. Augustine tourism.  Check.
Upcoming:. High paying jobs.

This is what Clay County is trying achieve with FCE. 

[seaspray]

LOL. This is stupid. So the city that has been around for almost 200 years has more problems than some untouched dirt in St. John's County? Success stories? Have you been to Riverside/Avondale, Brooklyn or San Marco recently? The Beaches? St. John's is not going to replace those neighborhoods...just your neighborhood in the Southside as a desirable suburbia. The rest of your points don't make much sense so I won't address them. 

I have to agree with you here. It's good to analyze the growth of St John's County area, to learn a few things that can be applied to Jax, but sometimes the direct comparisons to Duval can be a little harsh. St John's County had a clean slate to start with, nothing but trees there a few years ago compared to what was in Jax. A blank canvas basically

[vicupstate]

The already revived areas of JAX like Riverside/Avondale, San Marco,etc. don't have much to worry about from St. Johns County.  But the Southside is a totally different story. It could turn into the next Arlington, and the die is already cast for it to happen. The Avenues could turn into the next Regency Square in time. SJTC isn't immune either, albeit we are talking about a long term phenomenon for both. 

[FlaBoy]

^ all thanks to the awesome genius of Duval County lobbying for the construction of SR 9B

anyone see parallels with the First Coast Expressway?  how about it southsider1015?

Not quite sure what you're trying to prove here.  Maybe if Duval County got serious about growth and development, we'd see it happen.  Meanwhile, St. Johns is staying competitive as THE county for top schools, low crime, affordable housing, and soon, great shopping, and later, high paying jobs.

Meanwhile, COJ is struggling financially with the pension issue and can't pinch two pennies together to maintain sidewalks.  Sad, really.  About the only financial success stories these days is the SJTC, and now with the investment in I-295 Express Lanes, that area should continue to grow.

You're giving St. Johns County way too much credit. The county had far less to do with this project than state entities (FDOT building 9B), regional entities (JAXUSA), and property owners (who encouraged the state to spend millions on roads through their area, and are now positioned to build whatever this ends up being).

So far, all St. Johns County has been good at is residential development for commuters who work in Jacksonville, and services allied to that. It does have good schools. It has the same low crime as any demographically similar (affluent, suburban, largely white) area of the metro area or state. It certainly doesn't have affordable housing. Perhaps this will add "great shopping", but currently the county probably has less than other comparable bedroom suburbs; the county's bigger than Clay County but the only substantial retail centers are down in St. Augustine. And nothing I've seen suggests the county knows how to attract high-paying jobs, except possibly making plays to siphon off companies who are already in the metro area and want out of their leases. That's not really job growth so much as robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I give St John's all the credit.  What they've been able to achieve in 20 years is pretty significant.  Untouched dirt to having one of the most successful neighborhoods in the country.  They have been competitive as compared with Flagler, Duval, and Clay with everything they're offering.  They've indirectly forced FDOT to provide transportation connectivity to their community, and they've built up their county roads to continue the network.  They've managed and directed their growth relatively well, regardless of what's said here on MJ about urban sprawl. 

Affordable housing for the level of value provided.  Nocatee and Durbin might sound expensive, but the value is pretty significant. 

As I mentioned, the first step was bringing residents down to St. Johns for their residential tax base. Then develop the transportation infrastructure to allow people and goods to move around the area. Next comes the retail to develop the commercial tax base, and later, high paying commercial will come too, and if it comes from Duval, so be it.  Siphoning is happening all around the state, the high paying jobs go to the successful and competitive counties that offer the best business environment.  One could probably demonstrate that the first businesses to move to a county are typically right next door.  As more businesses flock from Duval, the bigger fish will come.

So to summarize:
Nocatee, Jullington Creek, Durbin Creek, Bartram Park?  Check.
Affluent, educated work force?  Check.
SR 9B, I-95, CR 2209, CR 210, Nocatee Parkway?  Check. Durbin Park, outlets, and future high end retail? Check.
Bonus: St. Augustine tourism.  Check.
Upcoming:. High paying jobs.

This is what Clay County is trying achieve with FCE.

The only reason this works is because SJC is convenient to Duval County.

[Tacachale]

^ all thanks to the awesome genius of Duval County lobbying for the construction of SR 9B

anyone see parallels with the First Coast Expressway?  how about it southsider1015?

Not quite sure what you're trying to prove here.  Maybe if Duval County got serious about growth and development, we'd see it happen.  Meanwhile, St. Johns is staying competitive as THE county for top schools, low crime, affordable housing, and soon, great shopping, and later, high paying jobs.

Meanwhile, COJ is struggling financially with the pension issue and can't pinch two pennies together to maintain sidewalks.  Sad, really.  About the only financial success stories these days is the SJTC, and now with the investment in I-295 Express Lanes, that area should continue to grow.

You're giving St. Johns County way too much credit. The county had far less to do with this project than state entities (FDOT building 9B), regional entities (JAXUSA), and property owners (who encouraged the state to spend millions on roads through their area, and are now positioned to build whatever this ends up being).

So far, all St. Johns County has been good at is residential development for commuters who work in Jacksonville, and services allied to that. It does have good schools. It has the same low crime as any demographically similar (affluent, suburban, largely white) area of the metro area or state. It certainly doesn't have affordable housing. Perhaps this will add "great shopping", but currently the county probably has less than other comparable bedroom suburbs; the county's bigger than Clay County but the only substantial retail centers are down in St. Augustine. And nothing I've seen suggests the county knows how to attract high-paying jobs, except possibly making plays to siphon off companies who are already in the metro area and want out of their leases. That's not really job growth so much as robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I give St John's all the credit.  What they've been able to achieve in 20 years is pretty significant.  Untouched dirt to having one of the most successful neighborhoods in the country.  They have been competitive as compared with Flagler, Duval, and Clay with everything they're offering.  They've indirectly forced FDOT to provide transportation connectivity to their community, and they've built up their county roads to continue the network.  They've managed and directed their growth relatively well, regardless of what's said here on MJ about urban sprawl. 

Affordable housing for the level of value provided.  Nocatee and Durbin might sound expensive, but the value is pretty significant. 

As I mentioned, the first step was bringing residents down to St. Johns for their residential tax base. Then develop the transportation infrastructure to allow people and goods to move around the area. Next comes the retail to develop the commercial tax base, and later, high paying commercial will come too, and if it comes from Duval, so be it.  Siphoning is happening all around the state, the high paying jobs go to the successful and competitive counties that offer the best business environment.  One could probably demonstrate that the first businesses to move to a county are typically right next door.  As more businesses flock from Duval, the bigger fish will come.

So to summarize:
Nocatee, Jullington Creek, Durbin Creek, Bartram Park?  Check.
Affluent, educated work force?  Check.
SR 9B, I-95, CR 2209, CR 210, Nocatee Parkway?  Check. Durbin Park, outlets, and future high end retail? Check.
Bonus: St. Augustine tourism.  Check.
Upcoming:. High paying jobs.

This is what Clay County is trying achieve with FCE.

The only reason this works is because SJC is convenient to Duval County.

Yeah, pretty much. That has much more to do with it than any particular moves by St. Johns County and its government. They've been good at inspiring yet more low-density residential development largely for people that work in Jacksonville. They've done well at services supporting their suburban neighborhoods, ie the service industry and things like the school system. Outside their wheelhouse, they haven't been so successful.

[Know Growth]

There's always the "no build" alternative. That's the cheapest option Seriously, would the world end if FCE was never built? We've survived just well without extending the Hart Bridge ramps as an elevated expressway along the entire Northbank riverfront.

The legally binding FCE "No Build" alternative quietly came and went years ago.......even before named FCE...hands on in person public input opportunity was St Johns County hearing...I recall something about 'colors'.....'letters'......pink,blue,red.....auditorium setting...the "No Build" table way back there in the back of the room.....I took pictures,comfortable with personal decision to no longer foment opposition-some projects are so bad they simply must be allowed to progress.......my upper level statewide conservation/growth management position would only,eventually prove efficacious in FCE alignment revisions,Water Management Twelve Mile Swamp negotiations and a host of other "mainstream" conservation lands projects on the table......Don't Rock The Boat!!...shucks,Mayor Delaney was the "Green" Guy at the time. I recall vividly the big blonde hair attorney for the Twelve Mile Swamp development rights transfer. Pappas.

Back then,during "No Build" window,the emphasis was on "River Crossing" and the Clay events inland/Brannon Chaffee/Sector Plans perfectly off the radar screen.....once First Coast beltway went to PD&E (along with a push from Mayor Delaney) we were on our way!

Not surprised Lake that even now you are so far out of the No Build Loop,most are.Would be wonderful to Stand Corrected and see "No Build" option implemented at this juncture.You would not doubt receive Award.