Bay Street streetscape to begin soon

[thelakelander]

Improvement of the Bay Street corridor that began before Super Bowl XXXIX in 2005 will soon resume. The previous work included installing pavers in the sidewalk as well as planting Washingtonia palm trees on the north side of Bay Street from Market Street eastward.

Contracts for Phase II of the Town Center project are expected to be awarded by the end of March and the entire project should be complete by November, said Ron Barton, executive director of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission (JEDC).

The design includes replacing the sidewalks on both sides of the street with pavers to match the first-phase installation, installing historic light fixtures, constructing new planting areas along the street, intensifying the landscaping at the corner of Ocean and Bay streets adjacent to the parking garage and replacing the palm trees that were installed in 2005 with varieties that will provide shade on the sidewalk.

full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=49437

[Lunican]

So they are removing the 3 year old palm trees?

[thelakelander]

Yes.  I wonder who will be providing the trees and what will happen with the existing ones. 

Although, I'm sure the streetscape will be a visual enhancement, the best thing to jump starting Bay Street is to get the courthouse and city hall annex's uses out of there and replaced with something that complements entertainment type uses.

[second_pancake]

This is great...if the contracts are awarded to someone with clout and not another Peyton-boy.  I certainly hope they repurpose those palms rather than just dumping them.  Maybe they could install them in one of the various parks or something.

[fsujax]

Maybe they could donate some of the Washingtonians to me, I need some for my yard.  I like the palms there. So now we will get rinky dink oaks, that will provide no shade for at least 15 years. Once big enough to provide shade, the root strucutre will destroy the planters, the lighting, irrigation and the brick pavers.

[Steve]

So - they are going to redo the sidewalk on the courthouse and annex side, then when the courthouse finally moves, they will have to redo it again, because the construction crews will destroy the sidewalk

[second_pancake]

Maybe they could donate some of the Washingtonians to me, I need some for my yard.  I like the palms there. So now we will get rinky dink oaks, that will provide no shade for at least 15 years. Once big enough to provde shade, the root strucutre will destroy the planters, the lighting, irrigation and the brick pavers.

Sounds about right.  Chances are they'll be overtaken with spanish moss and strangled to death before they can even get a root-hold.

[adamh0903]

Do you really need shade on a busy road? Do Palm tree's provide that much shade?

[second_pancake]

Do you really need shade on a busy road? Do Palm tree's provide that much shade?

Yes, and no.  We need the shade in order to cater to a walkable community...it gets stifling hot in the summer and no one wants to walk around a concrete jungle where the temperature can be 10 degrees or more, warmer than in a suburban area.  Based on the article, the palm trees (which don't provide much shade at all) are being replaced with actual shade trees...the size of which apparantly is not known yet.

[vicupstate]

Maybe they could donate some of the Washingtonians to me, I need some for my yard.  I like the palms there. So now we will get rinky dink oaks, that will provide no shade for at least 15 years. Once big enough to provde shade, the root strucutre will destroy the planters, the lighting, irrigation and the brick pavers.

Sounds about right.  Chances are they'll be overtaken with spanish moss and strangled to death before they can even get a root-hold.

The article states the new trees will be palms, but I would assume they will be a variety that provides some shade.  Planting worthless Palms that provide no relief from the sun, are a big pet peeve of mine.  Oaks are far better in appearance and utility (providing shade).  If memory serves, there were OAks there to begin with, before the first phase removed them. I criticized that at the time.  I'm glad they are correcting the mistake.

Washingtonia Palms would not provide decent shade EVER, much less in 15 years.

There are oaks in Hemming Plaza that don't tear up the concrete.  Main Street in DT  Greenville has 25-30' elm trees that provide beauty and shade in abundance, walmost no disruption to the sidewalks.   A decent arborist can prevent such problems.  

Spanish Moss does not 'strangle' or adversely affect any tree.    

[thelakelander]

As long as leaders understand that wide sidewalks along won't bring infill development, I'm all for the shade, if the goal is to make the street more pedestrian friendly.  Besides, there are several more types of shade trees out there, than just Oaks.

Main Street - Greenville, SC

[second_pancake]

There are oaks in Hemming Plaza that don't tear up the concrete.  Main Street in DT  Greenville has 25-30' elm trees that provide beauty and shade in abundance, walmost no disruption to the sidewalks.   A decent arborist can prevent such problems.   

Spanish Moss does not 'strangle' or adversely affect any tree.   

From Wiki:  "Spanish moss is an epiphyte (a plant that lives upon other plants; from Greek "epi"=upon "phyte"=plant), which absorbs nutrients (especially calcium) and water from the air and rainfall. Spanish moss is colloquially known as "air plant". It is not a biological parasite in the same sense as another epiphyte, mistletoe (it does not burrow into the tree and suck out nutrients)- however this is using a technical meaning of "parasite" of the biological community. By using a tree's structure it blocks out sunlight that would otherwise fall on the host tree's own leaves. The amount of sunlight it blocks is proportional to the amount it reduces tree growth depending on the tree type. On some trees only smaller or lower branches will die but the tree will grow at a slower rate."

When trees are young, it's important to remove the moss to allow the new growth to take off.  Once a tree is established and healthy, it's risk of dying as a cause of spanish moss infiltration is little.

The elms in Greenville are beautiful.  Actually, that whole town is beautiful...home to Hincapie   A lot of energy and money went into restoring that community and it really shows...love that place.  I don't know how elms would fair in direct sun and the high humidity of downtown Jax. Heck, even sycamores would be nice.  I love their large leaves, mottled bark and the color changes in the fall.