Via the Daily Record: Sleiman pushing for new convention center and moratorium

[fsujax]

Reading the article leads me to believe that Sleiman feels the Council might vote to let the moratorium expire. He has been pushing hard to get projects through before it ends.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=537679

[tufsu1]

interesting....I don't agree with Mr. Sleiman on many issues, but its good to see he understands the importance (perhaps overblown) of a new convention center as a catalyst for downtown....that said, his anti-tax stance won't help it get built.

[CityLife]

Can someone post the rendering of the convention center for those that don't go to the article?

Not too shabby...

[Traveller]

The rendering of the convention center reminds me of the one in Pittsburgh, only backwards.

[simms3]

Is Sleiman going to do anything with the Landing on his own?  Piece together the puzzle:

1) He contracts to redevelop the Landing and lease the land underneath at the height of the boom when other developers were proposing to add thousands of rooftops nearby (hoping all those bodies would come flocking to the only retail center in downtown).

1A) Those other projects fall through.

2) Then begins the fight for the city to build a garage for him as promised, as if that alone would mean success for his center.

3) Retail in general suffers leaving developers exclusive to retail desperate for deals and starving for cash, and lo and behold Sleiman lobbies the city to waive fees so he can increase profits trickling in elsewhere in his business model (to cover any large gaping holes in his portfolio?)

4) Retail is still not really happening, and neither is private development, so now in addition to the garage, he wants the city to build a CC in the hopes that some tourists are herded into his struggling and largest loss exposure that is the Landing.



Methinks Sleiman should have relied moreso on his ambition, experience and team to creatively get something done with the Landing than he relied on the City and other developers with nearby residential projects to make the thing work.  He's still holding on, but he should just give up hope that outside forces are going to help him out there.  Every developer has been through this...many with much greater loss exposure and their houses and all assets on the line.  I know of a chairman of a dev. firm that has put a billion dollar Manhattan office building on his personal balance sheet before just to get a deal across the finish line.  Stress and loss are a part of the business!

[fsujax]

I really like the rendering. Notice the large canopy over where the pool is on the Hyatt also.

[CityLife]

The only potential issue I see with that rendering, is that the portion fronting Bay Street may not interact with the street and have retail, dining, or entertainment spaces, which the TransForm Jax crew all agreed was vital if that site gets redeveloped as a CC. Of course its just a hypothetical rendering, but still a very important issue if the idea comes to fruition.

[thelakelander]

Lol, at the convention center being DT's most pressing need. This thought took place in the 1970s/80s. We turned the train station into one and LaVilla still died. How you integrate these things into the urban environment can either kill an area or help incrementally energize it. However, if we have $200 million to toss around DT, I don't know if its best to invest that entire pot on a CC.

[thelakelander]

The Landing site isn't large enough for what's desired. However, it would be nice to have the Landing updated and better integrated with downtown.

[Adam W]

I think that's ugly.

How important is a convention center, really? I can see it being something we'd want to have, ideally. But I'd think we could have the most modern, state-of-the-art convention center and we still probably would struggle to book conventions with Downtown Jax in its current state.

We have very little to attract people to the city as it is. You can make a somewhat appealing laundry list of things, but they're very spread out over a wide area. There's not a lot in the vicinity of the center for people who might come for the weekend.

I say we make Downtown redevelopment the priority and then see what happens. A convention center will happen as part of that, I'd hope.

I don't think "build it and they will come" is the best strategy.

[CityLife]

Lol, at the convention center being DT's most pressing need. This thought took place in the 1970s/80s. We turned the train station into one and LaVilla still died. How you integrate these things into the urban environment can either kill an area or help incrementally energize it. However, if we have $200 million to toss around DT, I don't know if its best to invest that entire pot on a CC.

The thing about the new CC is that it could be a revenue generator as well as a driver of tourism. So I don't know that we can look at it in the same way we look at other public expenditures like the courthouse and the library.

I'd assume that most of the cost of a new CC would be financed. So in my mind the question is, can the increases in revenue and tourism dollars offset the financing costs? If so, the intangible benefits to Downtown and the region would make it a very big positive.  If not, then you're probably right that there are better things to invest in DT.

[thelakelander]

The thing about the new CC is that it could be a revenue generator as well as a driver of tourism. So I don't know that we can look at it in the same way we look at other public expenditures like the courthouse and the library.

You should view a new CC the same way you view a library, schools, parks, roads, mass transit, etc.  It's most likely going to be a money loser directly but you invest in them to spur indirect economic development.  That being said, if all you had were $200 million in public money (I tend to view things this way because of our current fiscal situation) to invest in DT in the next five years, its difficult for me to say it will bring back the best return or even energize downtown outside of the immediate blocks.

I'd assume that most of the cost of a new CC would be financed. So in my mind the question is, can the increases in revenue and tourism dollars offset the financing costs? If so, the intangible benefits to Downtown and the region would make it a very big positive.

The intangible benefits will ultimately depend on how the box integrates with its surroundings.  We screwed that up with the PO and the amount of potential revenue from a center that size hasn't been as great as it could be.

[thelakelander]

The PO is too small.  I believe they need around 200k square feet of continuous exhibition space.  The PO has less than 80k.  The only way you're getting that much space on the Landing site is to construct a box that goes over the Main Street Bridge ramps.

[thelakelander]

Extending over the river would be pretty expensive and you'd be limited because of the shipping channel. If you're going to do a convention center, there are several sites, including the old courthouse site, that would be more suitable.  Also, the Landing isn't a complete loss.  It just needs to be updated and opened to the rest of downtown.  While it will never be a retail mall, it can still be filled for the most part with entertainment and dining uses.

[Egodriver71]

Anyone realize the artist's rendering is not at the site of the Landing?  But at the site of the old courthouse and city hall annex.