Where's the Tourism??

[second_pancake]

Jacksonville has the largest park system, as well as several historic districts that are either going through revitalization or have already undergone revitalization, and yet we have no walking tours, ghost tours of historic cemetaries, or any advertising to draw people to our city for anything other than the occasional convention, prospects of moving an established corporation here, or one freakin Superbowl.

Instead of the historical societies having a once-a-year-come-see-some-pretty-houses-at-Christmas, why don't they promote their towns within a town through some other means that will display how historically rich this city really is...to people from out of town and out of the country?  I guess the answer to that question is the powers-that-be don't really have any pride in our city nor do they value its history, and you have to first find something of value before you can effectively promote it to others.

When I lived on Amelia Island, I took everyone that visited me, on their own personal walking tour of the town.  We went down every street, looked at all the buildings, cemetaries, parks, and I told them about all of it...because I looked everything up at the museum and read stories and was very proud of where I lived and its history.  I felt the same way when I moved to Avondale/Riverside.  Very little was more special to me than to take my mom and dad on a walk down to Murray Hill and have my mother feel like a girl again, picking pecans freshly fallen from a neighbor's tree, and popping them into her mouth.  I felt good being able to explain to her the differences between Avondale, Riverside, Ortega and Murray Hill and to show her all the places there to hang out...all within walking distance.  I'm even more proud to read about places in Jacksonville that I never knew about (due to the city's complete ignorance to what they have), and know that now there are new things I can share with others.  I just wish the city could see what I see. 

Added benefit to all of this would be the historical properties saved.  Imagine, having a walking tour go by the old Klutho Apartments (RIP), describing them to the group and then adding, "Btw, this property is scheduled to be torn down and the only thing that can save it is someone to buy and restore it."  All too often, tourists have heard messages like this and jumped on the chance to own a piece of history (The Bailey House in Ferndandina was bought this way...through a walking-tour advertisement).

If there were a walking tour put together for Riverside, what would be some key areas/houses/buildings besides Five Points and Memorial Park?

[Lunican]

There was a historic church tour downtown, but that's only scheduled once a year.

[downtownparks]

I actually wrote a ghost tour for downtown about 8 years ago that was used for a period of time, any my wife and I always bounce around a Springfield Ghost Tour around Halloween. I think it may happen, just not in the near future.

[Ocklawaha]

STREETCARS... TRAINS.... TROLLEY BUSES...

Transit + museum = Tourist dollars

Ocklawaha

[second_pancake]

All of that is well and good, but what's going on now?  Nothing.  I'd be willing to put together something for the Riverside/Murray Hill areas but I'd need some more info on historic buildings and houses, old pics, interesting little tidbits about silly things, like maybe a famous celebrity getting into a fight at a local club, stuff like that.  Or maybe something creepy, like crazy things people did to prevent yellow fever.  Anyone got anything like that?

[downtownparks]

You have to dig it up.

I had several great little stories about downtown, including a former Mayor (JET Bowden) Bull-whipping a store owner on the steps of his own store at Forsyth and Laura St for making disparaging remarks about him.

[Charleston native]

The tourism element has to be sustained with historically important sites and attractions, supplemented with a well-preserved historic district, and unfortunately, the city has not made much effort in providing that element. While the city does have some historically significant sites, it has done little in thoroughly promoting them. Case in point, I have only learned about the important history of Jax and its importance to the state's and nation's histories by reading what has been posted on this website and MetJax.

There has to be something significant to bring the tourists. For example, my hometown has Charles Towne Landing (the city's and state's place of birth), Fort Sumter, the SC Aquarium (relatively new addition), and Patriot's Point. Combine these major attractions with the historic plantations and the preserved historic district of downtown, and you get large amounts of tourists who visit the city.

Jax will need to make their historic houses and neighborhoods the "cream of the crop". What I mean by that is the historic houses will need to become multi-million dollar properties, thereby "gentrifying" the area. Horse carriage tours (or trolley tours) could be made for the area, providing the romantic ambiance of an historical area. Jax could be a prime location for a Florida Aquarium. With the city's naval heritage, a naval museum that surpasses Patriot's Point could be created. Does Jax have a significant, historic fort site that could be utilized?

Ghost tours are alright, but they pale in comparison to what really brings in tourists that appreciate history. Other walking tours have just as minimal impact. Those tours actually should supplement the larger components of the tourism industry, which Jax has yet to fully utilize.

[second_pancake]

The tourism element has to be sustained with historically important sites and attractions, supplemented with a well-preserved historic district, and unfortunately, the city has not made much effort in providing that element. While the city does have some historically significant sites, it has done little in thoroughly promoting them. Case in point, I have only learned about the important history of Jax and its importance to the state's and nation's histories by reading what has been posted on this website and MetJax.

There has to be something significant to bring the tourists. For example, my hometown has Charles Towne Landing (the city's and state's place of birth), Fort Sumter, the SC Aquarium (relatively new addition), and Patriot's Point. Combine these major attractions with the historic plantations and the preserved historic district of downtown, and you get large amounts of tourists who visit the city.

Jax will need to make their historic houses and neighborhoods the "cream of the crop". What I mean by that is the historic houses will need to become multi-million dollar properties, thereby "gentrifying" the area. Horse carriage tours (or trolley tours) could be made for the area, providing the romantic ambiance of an historical area. Jax could be a prime location for a Florida Aquarium. With the city's naval heritage, a naval museum that surpasses Patriot's Point could be created. Does Jax have a significant, historic fort site that could be utilized?

Ghost tours are alright, but they pale in comparison to what really brings in tourists that appreciate history. Other walking tours have just as minimal impact. Those tours actually should supplement the larger components of the tourism industry, which Jax has yet to fully utilize.

As I was reading this, I was going to address only a few key points, but as I continued reading, I could not help but see that this is so off-base I'd have to respond to the entire piece.

Jacksonville has many "preserved" historic sites.  The problem is no one knows about them.  The reason no ones knows about them is because the city has no program to support educating out-of-towners about them.  This is what walking tours do.  This is what providing pamphlets with maps indicating the locations of these sites, do...and I'm speaking of self-guided tours in that instance.  No city can "provide" history.  It is either there or it isn't, and in Jacksonville, it is.  And since I see these types of tours as "promotion", I'm not exactly sure what you meant in your comment in that regard.

Ortega is a historic neighborhood with multi-million dollar homes...so is Riverside...and Avondale...and San Marco...and Mandarin.  It doesn't take a million-dollar home to "gentrify" an area.  It takes good planning and a lot of effort, and pride in the community.  We have beautiful homes in our historic districts, many of which could, and should, be on a regular tour.  And yes, we have a fort...Fort Caroline and the St. John's Bluff...again, something that is only promoted through the national park services and not the city as a means to generate tourism. 

While Ghost tours and Walking Tours and Self-Guided driving tours "pale in comparsion" to something like The Tennessee Aquarium, or Disney World, they're a start, and the complete the objective to bring attention and focus to our historical communites and buildings. 

Btw, famed author Harriet Beecher Stowe grew-up and lived here in a small cottage off a quiet road in the Mandarin area of Jacksonville.  The house is still there along with other historically significant buildings/houses.  Don't know about you, but if I were visiting Jacksonville, I'd most certainly want a tour of those places...even if I'm not in a horse-drawn carriage looking at multi-milliion dollar estates.

[RiversideGator]

FYI, Stowe did not "grow up" in Jacksonville as if she did she would have been a Confederate sympathizer.  She was in fact an abolitionist northerner who wintered down in Mandarin after the Civil War and attempted to educate freed slaves.  Read more here:

The Stowe Family in Florida. "In the 1870s and 1880s, Harriet Beecher Stowe (1811-1896) and her family wintered in Mandarin, south of Jacksonville on the St. Johns River. Stowe wrote Palmetto Leaves while living in Mandarin. The book was published in 1873 and describes Northeast Florida and its residents. In 1870, Stowe created an integrated school in Mandarin for children and adults. This was an early step toward providing equal education in the area and predated the national movement toward integration by more than a half century. The marker commemorating the Stowe family is located across the street from the former site of their cottage. It is on the property of the Community Club, at the site of a church where Stowe's husband once served as a minister." (Source: Florida Women's Heritage Trail, 2001)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Beecher_Stowe

[RiversideGator]

BTW, the book, A Yankee in a Confederate Town: The Journal of Calvin L. Robinson, provides an interesting account from a Northern perspective of life in Jacksonville before, during and after the Civil War.  It can be purchased here or at local bookstores:
http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/601-8452922-6809755?asin=1561642673&afid=yahoosspplp_bmvd&lnm=1561642673|A_Yankee_in_a_Confederate_Town:_The_Journal_of_Calvin_L._Robinson_:_Books&ref=tgt_adv_XSNG1060

[hank]

Pancake, thank you for starting this post.  It is a refreshing spot of civic pride in a predominately cynical sea.  I think you are correct in noting that we have great things here to be proud of but we aren't out there telling anyone about it.  Heck, we're almost ashamed. More spreading of the word about Jacksonville's merits and less self-flagellation might be just what could get tourists (and quality people looking to move somewhere) interested in the region.

I have an example of something going on now that is sort of a niche event, but its something.  The Jax AIA is organizing a retrospective/tour of Mid-Century Modern architecture at the DOCOMOMO in March.

http://www.aiajacksonville.org/cde.cfm?event=200613

The point being to do exactly what you're talking about - to raise awareness about the great architectural assets in the area, to tour and discuss them, and to ponder their future perhaps with an element of preserving the county's architectural heritage.  Also, interesting is that the event was able to bring in people (guest lecturers and the like) to participate.  Each of these visitors goes home (hopefully) with a view of positive side of the Jacksonville coin... and perhaps they tell someone about it back home.  Just like that you have people talking/thinking of JAX in a light other than "backwards, good-ole-boy, post manufacturing town".

[vicupstate]

Jacksonville is like many American cities, in that is does not, and never has, treasured it's history.  As such, too much has been destroyed to have provide an ambience of a bygone era, in the way historic districts in Savannah or Charleston do.  

More could be done to preserve and promote the history that still exists, however, the prevalent attittude of the city has to change. They continue to destroy much of what history remains, and instread try to imitate other cities (South Florida) in it's streetscape, architecture and vibe.  

The inferiority complex and suburban mindset that besets the city prevents that from changing.  No one at the top sees the value in historic preservation or in tourism itself (other than a few athletic events).

     

[Charleston native]

As I was reading this, I was going to address only a few key points, but as I continued reading, I could not help but see that this is so off-base I'd have to respond to the entire piece.

Jacksonville has many "preserved" historic sites.  The problem is no one knows about them.  The reason no ones knows about them is because the city has no program to support educating out-of-towners about them.  This is what walking tours do.  This is what providing pamphlets with maps indicating the locations of these sites, do...and I'm speaking of self-guided tours in that instance.  No city can "provide" history.  It is either there or it isn't, and in Jacksonville, it is.  And since I see these types of tours as "promotion", I'm not exactly sure what you meant in your comment in that regard.

Ortega is a historic neighborhood with multi-million dollar homes...so is Riverside...and Avondale...and San Marco...and Mandarin.  It doesn't take a million-dollar home to "gentrify" an area.  It takes good planning and a lot of effort, and pride in the community.  We have beautiful homes in our historic districts, many of which could, and should, be on a regular tour.  And yes, we have a fort...Fort Caroline and the St. John's Bluff...again, something that is only promoted through the national park services and not the city as a means to generate tourism.

Honestly, pancake, is it your mission in life to disagree with everything I say? Maybe you misread my remarks as harsh criticisms, but that was not my intention. Take it from somebody who is from a "tourist" town...walking tours do very little to initiate programs that educate out-of-towners. Self-guided tours are even less effective, because it places the responsibility on the majority of tourists to do the work themselves, and generally, most tourists want to be shown places and taken to places, since most of them are on vacation. Promotion of historical homes and sites has to be done by the city's visitors bureau as well as its chamber of commerce, touting their historical significance. Private industries such as carriage or trolley tours would then need to coordinate with those government agencies in promoting those homes/sites and use those sites as their prime area of business and touring. However, those tours are just a small part of the big, overall initiative that Jax needs to promote more tourism.

With Fort Caroline, Jax needs to "blow it up in fireworks and big lights", to paraphrase an expression. What is the fort's significance? Is there a daily ferry to bring people there? It needs to be a staple in Jax citizens' and visitors' minds...one that they would take pride in. For the multi-million dollar historic homes in Mandarin and Ortega, are there postcards depicting their beauty? Is there a consideration to have horse carriages or trolleys to have routes through these neighborhoods? I have to disagree that it takes alot of money to gentrify an area...it usually does. Consider most of my hometown's residences as well as others in Savannah and St. Augustine.

It is true that no city can "provide" history, but a city does have to "provide" its excitement and enthusiasm for its history.

While Ghost tours and Walking Tours and Self-Guided driving tours "pale in comparsion" to something like The Tennessee Aquarium, or Disney World, they're a start, and the complete the objective to bring attention and focus to our historical communites and buildings. 

Btw, famed author Harriet Beecher Stowe grew-up and lived here in a small cottage off a quiet road in the Mandarin area of Jacksonville.  The house is still there along with other historically significant buildings/houses.  Don't know about you, but if I were visiting Jacksonville, I'd most certainly want a tour of those places...even if I'm not in a horse-drawn carriage looking at multi-million dollar estates.

I think you're thinking too small here. As has been quoted, if you're going to dream, dream big. You've got to jump start the tourism economy, especially if it's missing or extremely slow. I hate to refer to my hometown again, but in the early 80s, Chas was small tourist town. A large portion of it was dilapidated. Eventually, Chas Place, a large hotel, retail complex was built in the heart of the historic district, and it helped transformed downtown into the tourism icon of the state. In addition, Fort Sumter Tours built a new ferry landing complex, the SC Aquarium was built, and the City Market was renovated. As those businesses have thrived, there are more ghost, walking, and horse carriage tours being added every year.

Jax can have a tourism economy similar to Chas, but simply starting it without having a large magnet or draw to the historical areas will keep the tourism trade as a small element of the city. These small tours you're mentioning will only continue to be small tours. You're a rare person who will just visit a house of a famous author without the amenities and comforts of a tourist city. Most tourists are not like that.

[second_pancake]

Honestly, pancake, is it your mission in life to disagree with everything I say?

No, only the things I disagree with   Btw, I admitted you were right about Don Pablo's on the Dona Maria's post...so, that should hold over for the rest of the year, right?

I agree about the thinking big and all that jazz.  The point I'm trying to make here is that we have NOTHING right now.  We can't count on our city government to do anything for us because they've done little to nothing so far.  They do not respect the history of our city nor do they have the pride in our city that many of the residents do.  We have hotels...nice, expensive hotels in our downtown.  We also have a beautiful bed and breakfast directly next to Memorial Park in Riverside.  I was at a friend's bike shop when a couple staying at that b-n-B came in wanting to know what to do.  The place didn't have brochures because the Chamber of Commerce doesn't have any or doesn't distribute them, and they were basically told to walk around 5-points and left to their own devices.  Shame on the B-n-B for not giving them more information, but shame on Jacksonville for having such a gorgeous town and not sharing it with everyone that visits.  The route I'm talking about is to address what we already have and market to the hotels, B-n-B's and locally owned and operated businesses...to just get the word out.  I ended up talking to this couple for about 20 minutes and telling them all the things they needed to see to which they replied, "leave it up to a bike shop to give us all the goods."  They ended up coming back the next day to tell my friend what a great time they had and how they didn't know that there were so many things to see here.

The biggest problem with Jacksonville and counting on the city to handle the marketing (aside from what I said earlier), is that Jax is just so darned BIG!  It would require someone to drive many, many miles to see everything.  I mean, Kingsley Plantation gets some press in the summer, but it's about 35 minutes away from the suburban southside area and almost an hour from Julington Creek (another major suburban area).  It really is going to require each individual community to act on their own accord and promote what they have.

[Charleston native]

No, only the things I disagree with   Btw, I admitted you were right about Don Pablo's on the Dona Maria's post...so, that should hold over for the rest of the year, right?

I haven't seen your response on the Dona Maria post, but sure, that'll do. 

Your last post makes it a lot clearer now. Your chamber of commerce and visitor's bureau (does Jax have one?) are not doing their jobs very well, if at all. The COC and the VB should be fully integrating their presence among most of the restaurants, hotels, and attractions of Jax, and they should be creating aggressive marketing campaigns to promote the city throughout the Southeast, if not nationally. Brochure distribution is a no-brainer. Hotels should have a literal plethora of city information including city maps that pinpoint and highlight the attractions and available tours. B-n-B's should also have some information, or at least an internet connection for an exclusive tourist website. As far as Jax's size, you have a point, but there should still be a core entity that can give information for each area of the city. My hometown is also fairly spread out, and many of its gardens and plantations are far from the downtown core, yet many visitors know about them because they're all listed.

I'm not sure if cities have authority over those organizations (COC, VB), but those organizations alone should be carrying the initiative. Do you think maybe the lack of tourism is attributed to Jax being promoted as a great city to work and play for attracting businesses rather than tourists?