$1 Billion In Sunrail TOD 2 Years Out!

[Ocklawaha]

Does Jacksonville fiddle while Rome burns? Maybe not, but we're damn close. Orlando is actually building fixed rail transit and it should be up and running in 2014. So even though that's still 2 years out, they have cataloged a $Billion dollars in new TOD development around the tracks, and as this article proved, they're looking for more. Sunrail a bad deal? Hardly!

Orlando Realtors to go on 'pretend' SunRail
4:08 p.m. EST, September 13, 2012|By Dan Tracy, Orlando Sentinel
More than 170 Central Florida Realtors, leasing agents and others will ride an Amtrak train Friday, pretending they are on the planned SunRail commuter train.

They will hop on a regularly scheduled Amtrak carrier in DeLand and take it all the way to Kissimmee on tracks that by 2014 are expected to carry the $1.2 billion SunRail trains.

Riders will stop only at four of the future SunRail depots, but they will see the sites of the rest of them as they whiz by, said Frankie Elliott, vice president of government affairs for the Orlando Regional Realtors Association, which is sponsoring the trip.

She said the idea is to generate enthusiasm for SunRail, as well as point out the possible ways people in the real estate business can profit from development that could sprout along the four-county route.

"It's going to have a positive impact for our business," Elliott said.

Already, more than $1 billion worth of projects are planned along SunRail, ranging from apartment buildings to commercial and retail space.

The ride, which costs $50 per person, is not open to the public.

Among those attending with be the chief executive of the Lynx regional bus service, John Lewis, and several SunRail officials, including project manager Tawny Olore.

Lewis is expected to tell the group about how Lynx will offer bus service for SunRail passengers to get from the station to their final destination. Other options could include taxis, cars that can be leased by the hour and bike rentals.

Olore, who possesses an almost encyclopedic knowledge of SunRail, will answer all manner of questions about the system that at first will link DeBary in Volusia County with downtown Orlando and south Orange County. The initial 31-mile phase will have a dozen stops, including Sanford, Lake Mary, Longwood, Altamonte Springs, Maitland, Winter Park and four in Orlando.

Eleven of the 12 stops are under construction, most of them with platforms already poured. Work has not yet started in Longwood because electrical lines have to be moved first, according to Steve Olson, a spokesman with the state Department of Transportation.

The route will be lengthened by another 31 miles in 2016, going north to DeLand and south to Poinciana in Osceola County.

Most of Friday's riders will gather at the Lynx downtown Orlando station and ride a bus to DeLand, where they will catch the regularly scheduled Amtrak train. It will have three extra cars on the end for the SunRail group.

The tour will end in Kissimmee, where the riders will go to the city convention center across the street from the Amtrak station. There, they will have lunch and look over plans for development along the SunRail corridor.

Meanwhile back in Jacksonville "ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"

[Ocklawaha]

Here is another take on this story:

Developers are building apartments along Florida’s new commuter rail line â€" but if SunRail isn’t reliable, both the idea of transit-oriented development â€" not to mention SunRail â€" could flop.

The SunRail tracks run straight through Florida Hospital’s campus on North Orange Ave. When the commuter train starts in 2014 it will be an important part of the hospital’s plans for a health village, which will include a mix of apartments, shops and businesses clustered around the yet-to-be built rail station.

Developer Craig Ustler says the project will transform the surrounding neighborhood.

“It would look like a lot of people walking, a pedestrian friendly environment, and maybe an evolution to a place where the car doesn’t win all the time.”


"It’s not a perfect set up yet," says Craig Ustler, standing at the site of the future Florida Hospital SunRail platform "they’ve got to build an administrative building and some retail to tie it all together, but a lot of pieces in place already to make a quality environment built around the transit.”

Ustler is counting on residents for a 250 apartment, $38 million complex he’s building a few blocks from the hospital.

The idea behind transit-oriented development (TOD) is to create pedestrian- friendly environments with access to transportation alternatives to the car. Local officials, like Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer, are excited about its potential.

“Transit-oriented development is popping up all around these stations, giving us new places to work, live and play,” said Dyer when SunRail got the final go-ahead a year ago.

“New companies moving in, new jobs being created. People saving money because they don’t have to use their car. People saving time because they’re not stuck on I-4.”

With ten thousand hospital employees and about three thousand  students at the College of Health Sciences, all of them potential rail passengers, shoppers or tenants, Florida Hospital is ripe for TOD.

SOURCE:  http://transportationnation.org/2012/07/10/will-sunrail-change-central-floridas-driving-habits/

[dougskiles]

^And just think - we already have the major pieces in place for a similar Health focused TOD at Baptist Hospital on the Southbank.  We just need the train engine, passenger cars and a simple stop.  With a dose of political support.

[simms3]

Is Jacksonville both the largest city and largest metro that currently doesn't have or is not in process of building or currently trying desperately to approve and build a fixed-rail transit system?

1) NYC has and is building ($5B 2nd Ave subway line, PATH, etc)
2) LA has and is building
3) Chicago has
4) Dallas has and is expanding DART and installing streetcars
5) Houston has and is expanding their LRT
6) Philadelphia has
7) DC has and is expanding/building Silver line to Reston/Dulles
8 ) Miami has and is wrapping up an extension to the airport and expansion of TRI-Rail and a multimodal center
9) Atlanta has and is installing streetcars and trying to expand MARTA
10) Boston has
11) San Francisco has and is extending Caltrain to new multimodal Transbay Terminal (and Muni)
12) Riverside - has?  part of LA anyway
13) Detroit - ok this is probably the largest, should we be in the same group as Detroit?
14) Phoenix - has
15) Seattle has and is expanding?
16) Minneapolis has
17) San Diego has
18) Tampa has the TECO streetcar, not doing very well apparently
19) St. Louis has
20) Baltimore has
21) Denver has
22) Pittsburgh has
23) Portland has
24) San Antonio does not have and is not pursuing?
25) Sacramento has
26) Orlando is building Sunrail commuter line
27) Cincinnati is building streetcars
28) Cleveland has
29) Kansas City does not have but is pursuing?
30) Las Vegas has if you consider its monorail
31) San Jose has
32) Columbus is putting in streetcars?
33) Charlotte has, is installing streetcars
34) Austin has
35) Indianalopis does not have and is not pursuing?
36) Virginia Beach/Norfolk has
37) Nashville has
38) Providence does not have nor is it pursuing
39) Milwaukee does not have but is pursuing?
40) Jacksonville does not have nor is it pursuing


Furthermore, in the #30-50 MSAs there seems to be a positive correlation between "growth" and the implementation, pursuit or construction of fixed-rail transit.  One only has to look at San Jose, Charlotte, Austin, Nashville, Oklahoma City (MAPS 3 passed setting aside $130M for a downtown streetcar), New Orleans and Salt Lake City to see where the growth leaders are in the sort of 1-2 million person metro areas, all have or are building LRT, streetcars and/or commuter rail.  The only exceptions are Buffalo and Norfolk/Virginia Beach, which have LRT but are growing slowly.

Conversely, almost all metros without rail or construction of rail in this group are growing slowly, including Jacksonville which is growing at half the rate it once did.  Providence, Milwaukee, Memphis, Louisville, Hartford and Birmingham are in this category, though I would argue that even Birmingham is building more infill than Jacksonville right now.  The only exceptions really are Raleigh, which failed rail, and Indianapolis which while does not have rail is arguably investing more into itself and its downtown than Jacksonville has ever considered (and it's paying off, including a raving SuperBowl review which seems almost impossible nowadays, especially in cold weather).  Also Raleigh has thousands of infill apartment units in mid-rises UC or about to break ground to the west and north of its downtown in walkable districts.

[fsujax]

Jacksonville is pursuing commuter rail.

[simms3]

I've heard rumblings on this site, but is it a big discussion?  Are we really a contender for funds?  Do we have a concrete plan like Sunrail?

[fsujax]

well, it took SunRail in total about 15 years to get to where it is today. Money is being spent on getting Jax to the point where federal funds can be applied for. I know that JTA has met with FTA officails several times about the project, including just a few weeks ago down in Ft Lauderdale and two months ago at their regional office in Atlanta and they will be here in Jax in October. So planning is well underway.

[JFman00]

New Orleans doesn't have and isn't pursuing light rail or commuter rail (though they are expanding the streetcar system).

[vicupstate]

Check with Lakelander to be certain, but I believe Detroit has plans for streetcar that are close to starting construction (if not already started).

[spuwho]

well, it took SunRail in total about 15 years to get to where it is today. Money is being spent on getting Jax to the point where federal funds can be applied for. I know that JTA has met with FTA officails several times about the project, including just a few weeks ago down in Ft Lauderdale and two months ago at their regional office in Atlanta and they will be here in Jax in October. So planning is well underway.

Interesting because the Jacksonville Urban Plan of 1973 showed that the Feds had already allocated funds for the planning a transit system in Jax.

Indeed, Ock, we have been asleep!

[simms3]

New Orleans doesn't have and isn't pursuing light rail or commuter rail (though they are expanding the streetcar system).

No but I think extensive streetcars count for something, especially the Green Line I think it is that runs several miles through Uptown and the Garden District.

Personally, just from my experience, for getting around the neighborhood streetcars are most convenient and easiest.

[fsujax]

well, it took SunRail in total about 15 years to get to where it is today. Money is being spent on getting Jax to the point where federal funds can be applied for. I know that JTA has met with FTA officails several times about the project, including just a few weeks ago down in Ft Lauderdale and two months ago at their regional office in Atlanta and they will be here in Jax in October. So planning is well underway.

Interesting because the Jacksonville Urban Plan of 1973 showed that the Feds had already allocated funds for the planning a transit system in Jax.

Indeed, Ock, we have been asleep!

Those monies were for Skyway planning.

[JFman00]

New Orleans doesn't have and isn't pursuing light rail or commuter rail (though they are expanding the streetcar system).

No but I think extensive streetcars count for something, especially the Green Line I think it is that runs several miles through Uptown and the Garden District.

Personally, just from my experience, for getting around the neighborhood streetcars are most convenient and easiest.

The city desperately needs a commuter or light rail line though. A line from the CBD to the airport passing through following Veteran's with a spur to Elmwood should be a no-brainer.

[spuwho]

well, it took SunRail in total about 15 years to get to where it is today. Money is being spent on getting Jax to the point where federal funds can be applied for. I know that JTA has met with FTA officails several times about the project, including just a few weeks ago down in Ft Lauderdale and two months ago at their regional office in Atlanta and they will be here in Jax in October. So planning is well underway.

Interesting because the Jacksonville Urban Plan of 1973 showed that the Feds had already allocated funds for the planning a transit system in Jax.

Indeed, Ock, we have been asleep!

Those monies were for Skyway planning.

That is where some of it ended up, but the JUP had line items for "people mover" (Skyway) and a regional mass transit system.

[JeffreyS]

Let's get back to the point. Why isn't Jax pursuing all of the ancillary benefits that fixed rail transit brings?(like a billion dollars of TOD)

Can it really be as simple as the fact that we just can not explain to people that there are other factors than the Fare Box?

People can understand that the Jags count the gate fare yes but they also count TV revenue, sponsorships and I am sure other benefits streams as well when getting to the bottom line.

Why is this so hard for people to understand, why can't the local leadership understand?