COJ CIty Council Context Sensitive Streets Special Committee

[Intuition Ale Works]

Does anyone know any more information about this "Context Sensitive Streets" Special City Council Committee?

Here is what it says on the coj website:

"Review the existing Context Sensitive Streets Guidelines that have been drafted by the Planning Department but not implemented, determine the appropriateness of these guidelines, investigate any other information pertinent to this issue, and make recommendations for and/or draft legislation as appropriate to address this issue."

http://www.coj.net/city-council/council-committees,-boards---commissions/context-sensitive-streets-special-committee.aspx

Who determined the City Council members on the committee?

Seems very pertinent to what is going on in Riverside/Avondale right now and would have thought Lumb or Love would be on the committee.

[dougskiles]

Yes - it was the daily feature two days ago...

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-sep-context-sensitive-streets-coming-to-jacksonville

I went to the meeting.  Laurie Kattreh, Melody Bishop and Laureen Husband did a great job of presenting the guidelines and the economic/health benefits gained by implementing them.

Council members Boyer, Carter, Daniels and Redman were at the meeting.  I believe that Council President, Bill Bishop assigned the members to this special committee.

The next meeting is in two weeks on September 26th at 4 pm, council chambers.

[Bill Hoff]

As Doug said, it was a good introduction to the issues.

I was pleased to see speakers talk about how the Mobility Plan (and fees) are directly related, as well.

[Dog Walker]

The Chair, Lori Boyer, set the agenda for the next meeting.  She is going to invite appropriate staff from Public Works and Planning to present what standards, regulation or codes are in the way of implementing the Context Sensitive Steets designs.

Laurie Kattreh showed how the FDOT design book made the Hendricks Ave. project a failure for that neighborhood.

The Mobility Fee is an integral part of this plan.

[fsujax]

Laurie will be missed. She was one of the 150 to be let go.

[thelakelander]

Laurie Kattreh showed how the FDOT design book made the Hendricks Ave. project a failure for that neighborhood.

Nice move.  If not for the current design standards, that road would have probably featured wider sidewalks, bicycle lanes, more parallel parking at the expense of 12' wide auto travel lanes (probably would have been reduced to 10'-11' wide) and the continuous center left turn lane.

[dougskiles]

I wouldn't call Hendricks Avenue in San Marco a failure.  Perhaps it could have had a wider sidewalk and narrower lanes.  Removing the left turn lanes would never have been approved.  The grid system in San Marco creates many left turns which would have stopped traffic too frequently.

Even the road diet guru himself (Dan Burden) recommends a continuous left turn lane as a way to turn a 4-lane road into a 3-lane road.

We can't forget that originally, Hendricks was a 4-lane road and the city wanted to put it back as a 4-lane road.  The neighborhood leaders at the time pushed for a 3-laner.  Everything happens in steps.

In 10 years, when it is time to resurface, we will push for the narrow lanes and larger sidewalk.  Some of the bicycle advocates feel that the bike lanes should be removed and replaced with sharrows.

[thelakelander]

Wasn't it a streetcar corridor originally that was converted into a narrow undivided four lane road? The modification of the current design policies would allow for the continuous suicide lane to not be a standard requirement. Instead, you would be able to have turn lanes where truly needed and other amenities in sections where they may not be.

[dougskiles]

Wasn't it a streetcar corridor originally that was converted into a narrow undivided four lane road?

Correct

The modification of the current design policies would allow for the continuous suicide lane to not be a standard requirement. Instead, you would be able to have turn lanes where truly needed and other amenities in sections where they may not be.

Yes, in theory.  Next time you drive the northern sections of San Marco Blvd, check out the number of trees that have been taken out (by cars) in the sections where the travel lane jogs back in to create room for street parking.

Ultimately, I feel it will end up being a good design.  It has taken drivers some time to get used to it.

[thelakelander]

Are trees being taken out by people parallel parking or are they too close to the curb at intersections and being hit by through traffic?  I'm not sure that a continuous center turn lane would be the only way to resolve that particular issue.  I'm having a hard time visualizing so I'll have to check it out when I get back to town.

I'm personally not a big fan of bike lanes of arterials like Beach (death traps) or sharrows on heavily traveled streets, in terms of their ability to attract casual bike riders. They are good for the die hard but I'd never recommend kids or a "casual choice rider" using them in Jacksonville. By the same token, if you're going to do bike lanes on a street with parallel parking, they probably need to be separated or at least 6' wide so cyclist won't get hit by car doors.

[dougskiles]

The trees are being hit by cars in the travel lane that are having to make a shift just beyond an intersection.  If you get off I-95 and go south on San Marco Blvd, you will immediately see what I'm talking about.

Regarding the bike lanes... I had a long conversation with Jeff Hohlstein (Cycling Saavy Instructor) about both Hendricks Avenue and San Marco Boulevard.  He made some very good points.

The bike lanes on Hendricks aren't wide enough to give proper separation between cars traveling 35 mph and the curb.  The bike lanes give a false sense of safety to both the cyclist and the car.  Cars will pass a cyclist much closer than the legal 3' distance when a cyclist is just on the other side of a white painted line.  But if the cyclist is encouraged to ride along the right tire track (where a sharrow would go) then the car waits to move over before passing.  I tried it and he is correct.

To your point about casual cyclists, neither a painted white lane or a sharrow is going to get a mom with 2 kids in tow out on the street.  A better solution would be to extend the sidewalk into the bike lane, paint a sharrow on the right tire path and provide a safer place for the casual cyclist to ride (on the sidewalk) and not run over the pedestrians.

I ride frequently on the new portions of San Marco Boulevard from Landon to the Square and have found that the physical constraints that make the travel lane 12 feet wide have a significant calming influence on car speeds.  I am usually riding about 15 mph and often stay with the flow of traffic.  I have yet to have anyone try to pass me, or be frustrated about an inability to pass me.  Sharrows would be perfect here, too, as a way to remind motorists that bikes belong on the road.

I actually feel safer riding on this part of San Marco Blvd than I do Hendricks because of the slow speed.  Which brings me to the conclusion that the safest and greatest thing we can do for the cyclists is to slow the speed of the cars.

[Tacachale]

Could sharrows be added currently? I do admit to feeling safer, whether or not I really am, riding in the Hendricks bike lane than riding without one (like on Prudential going to downtown)

[dougskiles]

Not likely that we would have sharrows and a bike lane.

[Tacachale]

I meant sharrows on San Marco. No bike lane there, right?

[dougskiles]

Yes - sharrows on San Marco Blvd.  There is no room for bike lanes.  I believe bike lanes could cause the speeds to increase, as the drivers would feel more comfortable on a wider section of pavement.

Downtown ... totally different animal.  2-way streets and bike lanes would be my preference.  The grid has a way of calming traffic to speeds of 20 mph or less.  Even better would be the bike lanes that are between the street parking and the sidewalk (only if there is adequate room for the door to open without hitting the cyclist).