The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.

[City Slicker]

Lost in all this is the fact that a new courthouse is required.  That's the whole reason it was put in the BJP.  Not to mention that the current one is quite antiquated and pretty much useless.  I agree with Lakelander that the thought of converting the Prime is not a good idea.  The current site can work.  It is best to bite the bullet and move forward with what is going to be required - by law - to support the population expected to be here in 20 years.  That is the whole problem now, no one has ever stopped to comprehensively vision and plan for the future.  All we have had is scattershot pieces of a downtown puzzle.  Think about the potential of the area - residential, business, the arts, etc. We stand on the edge of something new and wonderful for this community.  If someone in their infinite wisdom would just stop, think, plan and consider what could be.  Alas, a simple Utopian thought that also will never be achieved.

[thelakelander]

I think the biggest problem is we've been led to believe that we have to spend $400 million.   They don't even have a completed set of plans.  We don't have to spend that much if we don't want to.  We should be able to build a plain jane facility a lot closer to the original budget if we strip the bells and whistles.  Reduce the square footage, where possible, and go vertical would be my advice.

[DetroitInJAX]

It seems to me that someone told someone else "this is how much money you have to work with", so theyre designing a courthouse to those specifications instead of what is actually NEEDED in the facility.


How much did the Orange County Courthouse in Orlando cost?

EDIT:

So I looked around and according to Wikipedia, it says that with 100 million dollars, in 1997, they built:

(416 feet tall tower)
23-level courthouse tower
Two five-story office buildings
1,500 car parking facility

Why is everything so hard for this city?  like pullin' teeth, people.. like pullin' teeth.

[thelakelander]

The Orlando courthouse was built before 9/11.  However, Charlotte's courthouse was completed last year for $148 million.  It would be interesting to compare the materials selected and square footage spaces we're planning for with those that were a part of cheaper courthouses going up across the country. 

[avonjax]

It's understandable that the Orlando courthouse was a real bargin 10 years ago, but Charlotte could build one for 148 million.....
Does someone have a picture?
I am beginning to believe there is something deeply wrong about our city government.
If Charlotte can do it, certainly we can.....

[thelakelander]

Mecklenburg County (Charlotte) is larger than Duval in population and is growing faster than Duval, yet their new courthouse facility is 230,000sf smaller than Duval's.  In any event, they paid $261/sf for their complex, while we're looking at $340/sf for ours.  Imo, the problem is here and not whether we can build it cheaper at the Prime Osborn or Monroe Street site.  What finish materials are we specifying and are our spaces larger than they really have to be?  Something tells me we can trim the fat and still have a decent building if we want to.

Charlotte's new $148 million courthouse complex opened in 2007.  That price covered the construction costs for the 568,000 square foot courthouse building, containing space for 47 courtrooms, a 1,164 space parking deck and 10,000 square feet of retail. Strangely enough Turner Construction Company (the one involved in our project) was involved in the construction of this one as well.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/648/115/

[Jimmy]

I don't suppose that Turner Construction ever even placed a bid to build our courthouse...  I'm impressed by what they accomplished in Charlotte.

http://www.turnerconstruction.com/carolinas/content.asp?d=3297&p=3296

[Steve]

I don't think that the issue is the contractor or the architect, but the specifications in the bid.  No one construction company is going to be able to install floors made of gold much cheaper than any other contractor.

[Jimmy]

We should just get a few of those leftover Katrina FEMA trailers and hold court there.

Why should Jacksonville have a decent courthouse anyway? 

[Charles Hunter]

But .... but .... it doesn't have faux Roman columns ... or a dome .... or look like it was built in in the 1800s ...

it can't be a court house!

[Steve]

I don't think the courthouse is dead yet....


City To Pay Part-Timer 6 Figures To Oversee Courthouse Plan

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- The city has made plans to bring back a familiar face to try to get the ball rolling on the stalled courthouse project, but the services of this part-timer will not come cheap.

With the new courthouse nowhere near being built and the price tag now close to $400 million, the city has reached back in time to bring in a familiar face get the job done.

The city has begun the process of hiring Sam Mousa to oversee the courthouse project. Mousa was Mayor John Delaney's chief aide and one of Mayor John Peyton's first appointments.

He was involved in the original courthouse plan.

"I think the value he brings and the experience he brings with a similar type project, doing those projects in both the public and private sector is just invaluable. It just adds to our team," said Alan Mosely, of the mayor's office.

However, not everyone was so positive about Mousa's return. A group that has been skeptical of the courthouse project from the start called the Concerned Taxpayers said hiring Mousa is a mistake.

"We are reaching to the bottom of the barrel here if we have to bring Sam Mousa back to try and save this courthouse project," said John Draper, of the Concerned Taxpayers. "The idea that Mayor Peyton would call back Sam Mousa is just a sign of desperation."

Also, Mousa doesn't come cheap. He will be working part time and get paid a part-time hourly fee of $225 per hour.

The city said Mousa wouldn't be allowed to make anymore than $135,000 a year for the part-time job.

Channel 4 reporter Jim Piggot talked to Mousa by phone about the job and the pay.

"Jim, I had no input with the maximum indebtedness. I provided the city with an hourly rate, and the city came back with that maximum indebtedness," Mousa said.

City official said the courthouse project needs Mousa, and they believe the move will actually save money.

"As we go forward, we have plans for an engineering firm to help us support our needs as we go forward. We were not going to do all of this in the body of government. We had a consultant planned as our engineering consultant with the work. Sam will supplement our team," Mosely said.

Mousa said he would like to stay with the courthouse project until it is completed.

The city hopes to sign the contract with Mousa next week.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/15283961/detail.html

[Steve]

I'm not sure what John Draper is so upset about - this IMO is a great thing.  Personally, if Mousa was involved from the start, then this thing would have stayed at 211 million.

On the other hand, if you look up the definition of "Surrender" in the dictionary, you will now see Peyton's face.  Mousa was hired bbefore Peyton was sworn in, and "resigned" 13 days into the administration.  If you resign 13 days into an administration (after working in government since the Hazouri Administration and a track record of on time/on budget), something irreconcilable must have happened.

Now, all of a sudden, when the courthouse problem seemed "hopeless", Mousa is back.

Wonder what that phone call must have been like - case in point the $135,000 for a part time job.

[fsujax]

This could be a real positive for the project.  Draper complains about everything. In one ear out the other for me, when it comes to him.

[tufsu1]

but I thought the project was dead?

[thelakelander]

I guess not.  Besides, we're mandated by law to construct a new facility.  Hopefully, we won't have to pay $400 million for it. 

Stephen Dare, are you around?  What's your take on these change of events?