JTA's Commuter Rail Study Begins

[Metro Jacksonville]

JTA's Commuter Rail Study Begins



Last Thursday, JTA's commuter rail citizens advisory panel held its first meeting.  While nothing shocking was highlighted that hasn't been already covered on Metro Jacksonville, consultants did discuss several considerations that will have an impact on Jacksonville's ability to win federal funding from the Federal Transit Administration.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/707

[jeh1980]

Good article...except the "dwindling downtown" part. I think that pretty soon, we will have a more lively downtown if we could talk to someone from the city council. Anyway, I think that JTA should move forward with the commuter rail system.

[JeffreyS]

I know that you could always say you left out this or that employer but one I think we should always mention is NAS. The Navy is a big part of Jacksonville's economy and one plan serves them and one forgets them.

The mass transit plan shouldn't just look at what Jacksonville is but to a degree what we want it to be. A build it and they will come aspect.

[thelakelander]

The mass transit plan shouldn't just look at what Jacksonville is but to a degree what we want it to be.

I agree 100%.  Right now, its a mixture of what we think Jacksonville is today and what the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) wants us to be so we can get in line for "free" FTA money.  At some point, we're going to have to decide if some things are best done on our own to make sure they're done in a way the benefits several aspects of our city's quality of life offerings that far exceed the issue of being the FTA's lap dog and only chasing after the sticks they throw to us.

[Traveller]

Do people think the FTA's stance with respect to BRT will change with the next administration?  In other words, is there a better chance to get federal funds for rail after January 2009?

[downtownparks]

I would say yes. I don't know what Romney and McCains records on the issue are though  Romney was the Gov of a state with an incredibly successful commuter rail system. He is bound to see the importance of it. I think Dems tend to be rail friendly.

[fhrathore]

All I can say is thank God. Even though BRT is not done w/ by JTA, this is definetly a step in the right direction. I wish JTA and the city would put a halt on any destruction on current rail lines, like the S-line, until this study is over. All we have to do is keep the pressure on. The Folio article also helps spread the word. I'm sure we have found some new supporters. Kudos to JTA for this move. Better late than never!

[Ocklawaha]

CHANGE IN 09?

Only for the worse... Sorry to bust your bubbles but Clinton did NOTHING for Rail Transit, Amtrak itself cut to the bone, and McCain, is the worst enemy of Rail and Amtrak since General Motors. Does anyone else really have a chance? I doubt it.

The FTA is currently driven by highway PAC $$ and is very stacked against Rail, so we go alone, or we probably don't go.

Florida DOT, and our Governor is quite a "KNOW NOTHING" and "DO NOTHING" in the field too. In fact for a state of our size (population) we are probably dead last in rail... Even Texas, home of BIG OIL, is pulling past us.

There was a time when we defeated the invading American Army at Jacksonville at Durbin.
There was a time when we drove out the Spanish at the point of a sword.
There was a time when 6 of our citizens fired into 20,000 Yankees at the foot of Broad Street.
There was a time when the Florida Guard stood at the gates of the City and refused anyone entry because of Yellow Fever.

Today?

We don't have the missing MALE PARTS to do a simple transit system, fill a downtown, build a Courthouse, or save a historic school.

I'm filling my pool with SOCO and going for a swim!

Ocklawaha

[exnewsman]

The point about the distance between commuter rail stops you make is confusing in that isn't the whole point of mass transit is getting people to their destinations as quickly as possible. If you are making stops every 1-2 miles, the trains are not getting up to speed and that is just slowing the process down.  It sounds like what you're describing is more of a hybrid LRT/commuter rail system - with LRT distances using commuter rail technology.  But commuter rail by its mission is to bring people from outlying "bedroom communities" into the urban area primarily for work.  If I am on that train, I don't want it stopping every mile and making that trip from the distant suburbs even longer.  I might as well stay in my car.
Also - JTA has maintained all along that it was looking at a multi-modal system - not just BRT, not just commuter rail or LRT or whatever. The waterborne study and this commuter rail study indicate that was true.  Maybe your mistrust is a bit overzealous. Let this play out and see where it goes. MJ has a seat at the table. I suggest using it properly.

[thelakelander]

The point about the distance between commuter rail stops you make is confusing in that isn't the whole point of mass transit is getting people to their destinations as quickly as possible. If you are making stops every 1-2 miles, the trains are not getting up to speed and that is just slowing the process down.

It doesn't matter about getting from point A to point D the quickest if I want to go to points B & C.  Caltrain is a good example of how to deal with the issue you describe.  They have local commuter rail trains stopping every mile or so and express trains that stop at major destinations.  Something like that would work good locally, as opposed to building long distance commuter rail and short distance BRT or light rail paralleling the existing lines.

It sounds like what you're describing is more of a hybrid LRT/commuter rail system - with LRT distances using commuter rail technology.  But commuter rail by its mission is to bring people from outlying "bedroom communities" into the urban area primarily for work.  If I am on that train, I don't want it stopping every mile and making that trip from the distant suburbs even longer.  I might as well stay in my car.

That's a common mistake made by many planners.  Every rail system is different and should be built according to each region's individual needs.  Here's links showing various commuter rail systems that do what I described.

Caltrain: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/700/116/

Austin Capital Metrorail: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/589/116/

Also - JTA has maintained all along that it was looking at a multi-modal system - not just BRT, not just commuter rail or LRT or whatever. The waterborne study and this commuter rail study indicate that was true.  Maybe your mistrust is a bit overzealous. Let this play out and see where it goes. MJ has a seat at the table. I suggest using it properly.

The worst thing you could do is let this play out, if you've seen the BRT routes planned so far.  There's nothing wrong with a multi-modal system or BRT, but the corridors JTA has planned will have multiple systems paralleling each other.  If there's examples of ways to use existing infrastructure to kill two birds with one stone and achieve the same goal for a fraction of the cost, why not speak up before its too late?

[thelakelander]

Also - JTA has maintained all along that it was looking at a multi-modal system - not just BRT, not just commuter rail or LRT or whatever. The waterborne study and this commuter rail study indicate that was true.  Maybe your mistrust is a bit overzealous. Let this play out and see where it goes. MJ has a seat at the table. I suggest using it properly.

Btw, we have never claimed that JTA was not doing a commuter rail study.  In fact, many here are taking an active role in that process.  Also, the rail alternative is not an "either or" mission.  Its about taking the BRT plan and integrating it with potential commuter rail plans.  Doing this would mean some corridors would have BRT, while some would be rail, without having to pay for some that would have both, which is what would happen if the current BRT plan is allowed to become reality.

Also, here's a negative about letting poorly concieved ideas play out:  The $200 million skyway express.

Here's a positive for getting involved in the process early on:  JTA revises BRT plan to remove the idea of running bus lanes down Adams, Forsyth and Bay Streets.

So I'd suggest our interaction is properly taking effect, despite the fact that it may turn some off.

[Coolyfett]

Also - JTA has maintained all along that it was looking at a multi-modal system - not just BRT, not just commuter rail or LRT or whatever. The waterborne study and this commuter rail study indicate that was true.  Maybe your mistrust is a bit overzealous. Let this play out and see where it goes. MJ has a seat at the table. I suggest using it properly.

Btw, we have never claimed that JTA was not doing a commuter rail study.  In fact, many here are taking an active role in that process.  Also, the rail alternative is not an "either or" mission.  Its about taking the BRT plan and integrating it with potential commuter rail plans.  Doing this would mean some corridors would have BRT, while some would be rail, without having to pay for some that would have both, which is what would happen if the current BRT plan is allowed to become reality.

Also, here's a negative about letting poorly concieved ideas play out:  The $200 million skyway express.

Here's a positive for getting involved in the process early on:  JTA revises BRT plan to remove the idea of running bus lanes down Adams, Forsyth and Bay Streets.

So I'd suggest our interaction is properly taking effect, despite the fact that it may turn some off.

I sorta agree..Keep the pressure on JTA. Letting it play out is not a good idea at all. People should get involved. The rail plans that most posters are speaking on would clear a lot of traffic off the expressways. You have to keep the pressure on things if you really want change. The trains would have right of way and would move ON SCHEDULE...keywords ON SCHEDULE. Those of you who were late for work because the JTA bus was TOO LATE or TOO EARLY know exactly what I am talking about.